I still want to download it, but its all dependent on morality, availability, and accessibility to the user.

Pirating is not Sovereign.

DARCA

what #3 said

I pirated Galactic Civilizations 2. There is absolutely ZERO chance that I would have bought the game before having played it. I wouldn't have invested time playing a demo for an old game, yet alone invested hours learning the game dynamics to complete a few campaign missions. A 30 day full-version trial wouldn't have helped either, since it took me a long time to get into the game (off and on), because when I first started I had no clue what I was doing, and I was already familiar with 4x games (Civilization 4 and 5).  I had to watch a couple hours of YouTube "lets plays" just to understand the basic dynamics and race differences. I wouldn't have bothered to watch those videos to play a "demo," or just to see if I was interested in making a purchase. Galactic Civilizations is a game with a big learning curve, and it lends itself very well to benefit from piracy IMO.

There is a new computer game available for download every day now. There is no limit to the amount of content available, it's all about trying to find something that you like. I believe that pirating is a huge boom to the video game market, especially for indie developers who need to raise awareness more than anything else. If you release a game with benefits for people who buy it, then people will buy the game, or at least support the studio through word of mouth and later product launches.

Like you said, pirating is easy, and convenience plays a big role. Steam has proved that if you offer sales, easy access and storage, people will buy games and never even play them. If piracy is playing a game you didn't buy, then I suppose that would be the exact opposite! Through a combination of cheap prices and convenience, you can actually generate the opposite effect. Netflix is another great example of this buisiness model. It has converted many TV pirates into monthly subscribers because it's inexpensive and more convenient than piracy.

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/04/17/nearly-37-of-all-registered-steam-games-have-never-been-played/

There has actually been some research done on the benefits of piracy, both in the music and the gaming industry. It appears obvious that both markets are moving towards a more open and indie-friendly atmosphere, mainly because of new online distribution platforms, crowdfunding, and even piracy. This benefits everyone, since it brings new and unique content into the open. While it's easier than ever for indie developers to find money to start up and get their way into distribution, they can often fall short of the spotlight. Piracy can bring a lot of attention to a new title. While you should always support developers and artists, pirates aren't destroying the economy or keeping food off the table. Sometimes people just can't afford to buy a game, and in that case, it's better to have their support, loyalty, and advertisement than nothing at all. The negative effects of piracy are minimal at best, and the market is the best proof of this fact.

Source: https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/why-digital-piracy-may-good-160000146.html

On the other hand, huge developers/distributors will continue to lobby for more strict piracy laws, because they already spend tens of millions of dollars on advertising. This often creates the opposite effect for them, instead of piracy bringing awareness, increased awareness leads to increased piracy. Regardless, most of these "blockbuster" games are still making record profits. There is a dark side to piracy therefore, but I suspect many of these pirates are running out and pre-ordering the next title in the series.

My stance certainly isn't that of the majority, but it isn't easily dismissed either. It's hard to argue with the fact that while piracy continues to grow in popularity, the movie and gaming industry are enjoying record profits on blockbuster titles. The music industry is changing towards a more concert driven revenue stream as people start to take notice of indie artists with free music. These artists rely on fan loyalty and small concert performances at local clubs instead of "mega hit" albums. Every day more content is available for free and some companies have taken notice. There is already much less emphasis on traditional business models. Giving away a free game is quite normal for online games today, as MMO developers switch from retail "boxed games," to free to play models. Lots of online developers have even shifted away from a monthly subscription cost to a more dynamic content system where users pay for specialized items. I'm not a huge fan of the way many developers have handled this particular strategy, but it's obvious that it works. 

Let me ask you this. Do you think that Zynga, the maker of the Facebook game Farmville, would have been successful if they instead had retailed their game at brick and mortar stores for $20? The company is valued at over 2 billion dollars, because they have relied on viral marketing, and a free to play strategy that simply works in today's market. Granted, you might say what does piracy have to do with shitty games that were successful due to viral marketing and facebook's friend spamming ability?

It's all intertwined. It's slow and ugly but the market is making a transition. It has been for over a decade. There is no mistake about it. Selling boxed games is a thing of the past. The entire industry is moving towards online content distribution, and online the problem is getting your product noticed in the huge sea of content. Yeah, big name companies will be able to get "Steam Spotlights" just like they have large cardboard cutouts at game stop, but while you might have noticed the little gem of a game at the bottom of the shelf for $9.99, it's much harder to notice everything online. If you want to get noticed, you have to get people talking. While console developers still have some chance of getting into a retail store, retail locations for computer games have been disappearing for years.

Note: Consoles do a pretty good job at copy protection so I'm not going to go into a discussion on console piracy. If you are pirating console games, it's not because it's convenient. It's always been easy on the PC, where as original xbox pirates had to take apart and soldier expensive chips onto the motherboard to play games. These kinds of people are few and far between, and since indie games are not typically even sold on disks, they do not contribute to game awareness and most likely represent a revenue loss to big business.

My argument is simply this, in a changing market, where online distribution is unquestionably the future, you can either afford advertising or you can't. If you can't afford advertising as an indie developer, then while every sale counts, awareness is even more important. If someone that pirated your game told five people how awesome it was, posted a "lets play" on YouTube that got hundreds of views, wrote about it on their blog, or joined in the modding community then that's value added. I'm not going to tell you that piracy is a good thing, but I don't think it's a bad thing either.

Personally, I have no issues with pirating a game to try it. If I pirate a game and discover I like it, I buy it. This has allowed me to sample countless games I never would have otherwise, and I make significantly more purchases as a result. Granted, I can only speak for myself, but the moral line doesn't end at pirating, it ends with what you do after.

You are quite funny. Arguments are dismissed with facts and counter-points, not with biased opinions on morality and what constitutes "good" overall. Let us take the most obvious example, the fact that I pirated GC2. You would argue, through a warped sense of justice and an immature understanding of morality, that I am a horrible person for downloading the game. What was the result? I bought it on a steam sale a few months later, and I am now a proud Elite Founder of Galactic Civilizations 3. 

Please explain to me how the fact that I pirated GC2 ended in negative consequences for either me or Stardock? Keep in mind, I was competely unaware that Stardock even made anything other than windowblinds before I saw GC2 on kickasstorrents, and it was only two years ago, well after it's initial sale and advertising for the product were complete.

Morality isn't black and white. You cannot cover everything in a blanket of "good" and "evil." Most things are both, they just lean more to one side or the other. It depends on the person and the circumstance.

I don't mean to suggest that most people who pirate are buying the product later, but I have never met somebody who didn't own a game, a movie, or a music album. In fact, everybody seems to have quite a collection these days. I believe that many who pirate still buy lots of video games as well, but for whatever reason choose to pirate others. Teenagers have a limited income but lots of free time. They still get caught up in marketing, brand association, and hype too. I think the recent record set by Destiny for the most pre-orders proves this. While piracy has caused some losses to the industry, there is no shortage of people ready to run out and buy the next-best-thing.

People who pirate games, just like everybody else, eventually grow up. Their point of view regarding the impact of their activities can change over time. Teenagers aren't just prone to pirating blockbuster games without buying them, they also drink and drive, bully kids at school, get pregnant, and make all sorts of mistakes. There is no such thing as a "pirate," just normal people living their lives one day at a time. I was one of those teenagers, and while I still download games, my philosophy has changed over time.

Warning: just a bit of my own downloading history after this point (for perspective)

Age may play a factor. I feel like I grew up with piracy. I was 12 years old when Napster hit the scene and shocked the world. You had better believe I was downloading songs with the rest of them. Kids at school talked about it non-stop. After Napster was abolished, I moved to Kaaza, bearshare, and eventually found my way to bittorrent and the wonderful Suprnova tracker around the time I was 15. Every day there were new games to download. It was the greatest thing a lonely geek could have asked for. I found years of bliss using that site, exploring the world of new games and expensive industry applications. However, I was once again left with a feeling of loss when it was taken down a few years later, but I couldn't believe the response. There were dozens of "copycat" sites that sprung up almost over night. I stuck around and browsed them for a while, but it never felt the same.

One day, I don't recall how, I was introduced to what would eventually become my new home. It was then that I discovered a new concept (the "private" tracker). No community I have ever seen since rivals the mighty Elitetorrents, which was a seedbox haven. I remember downloading movies fast enough to stream them on release day (a DVD in 30min). Back in 2004 that blew my mind (I was 17 at the time). There was no service available online that even offered the ability to rent DVDs and stream them to your computer (that I know of). It was crazy. Online download speeds and streaming would have to wait years before that kind of quality become standard as well. Games were cracked and released equally fast. I have vivid memories of downloading SWKOTOR fast as lightning, shortly after its midnight release. What a time to be alive!

A year later Elitetorrents was raided by the FBI in project D-Elite, for (not surprisingly) uploading a copy of "Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith" just six hours after the movie's theatrical release. Their efficiency was something that, even today, the entire entertainment industry could learn from. After I got over the terrible loss, I stumbled upon a little green devil. While the speed, quality, and efficiency could never compare, the sheer amount of content at demonoid was something to behold and this is where I stayed for the next few years, sharing terabytes of data.

During this phase I started college and got my first Job shortly there after. Things have slowly changed since then. Steam and GOG were certainly major contributors. It's far more convenient to buy games during a steam "sale" then it is to search for and pirate them all for "testing" purposes, so I started to buy lots of games this way. I have also bought countless games that I pirated in the past, just because it's nice to have them in my library and available anywhere anytime (with the latest patches). I used to buy exciting new games sight unseen from developers I loved, but this has actually changed more towards pirate "testing" again. Mostly because those developers have all been sold to EA and titles that used to be actual role playing games are now just cinematic first person shooters with story elements (and terrible endings!).

I actually tend to avoid blockbuster games now. I spend a lot of time "pirating" dozens of indie games until I find something that I like and then I'll buy it from their website. There are still some developers and games that I support sight unseen though, Galactic Civilizations obviously being one of them. I also wanted to pay them back for GC2, since I really payed peanuts for it during that sale... hahaha.

This is starting to feel like a serial killer confession. Lol

Can you be my steam friend, I think EA sucks too!?!?

ID is right though, there isn't a need to pirate games anymore with Wikipedia, let's plays, reviews, game facts, and the internet at large.

;- )

It's already been said, but I'll say it again - Youtube Let's Plays have been one of the greatest gaming boons ever.  A single competent Let's Play is more valuable than all the reviews, previews, and forum threads put together.  They've saved me a lot of money on games that sounded good in reviews and discussions, but immediately turned me off when I saw them in action.

I can understand if very poor people pirate games. The rest can go fuck themselves.

I don't advocate piracy, just to be clear, but I find this statement a bit unfortunate. I have even stated that in the case of well financed publications it often has a negative effect and represents a loss in revenue for the publisher. But while I feel there are good reasons why racism, bashing, and even homophobia should be monitored on a website, these are all attacks against an individual, not an idea. The freedom of speech is something that most developed nations have acknowledged as a critical element in a functional Democracy (or more accurately a Republic in most cases). While it's your right to ban Stardock customers over a difference of opinion, since the forum is your private property, I feel discussions should not be forced to conform to the political ideologies of your organization. Should we also fear banning if we support GMO labeling, Net Neutrality or pro-choice abortions?

In essence, saying "Hey, if you have a friend that owns [insert platinum title here], then just borrow the bluray for a weekend to see if you like it. And if you do.. buy it" is no different. The only difference is the method of content delivery for testing. Is lending a purchased console disk to a friend piracy? Can a member be banned for "supporting" this practice? The impact of game lending and second hand purchases in the console market is another heated topic. You cannot avoid a discussion about piracy when addressing the issue either. Game "lending" represents a revenue loss as well. 

I think we all remember the backlash against Microsoft when they announced that the Xbox One would require once-a-day internet check ins and restrict both game lending and second hand sales. If anybody believes these issues are going to just disappear you're are dreaming. Microsoft was even considering retailing the Xbox One without an optical drive altogether, and making all purchases download-only. The technology simply wasn't ready with current game sizes. Already, just a year later, 6TB hard drives are common, and with fiber internet expansions, you can bet this will be a very likely proposition next generation. If not on the "flagship" product version , then on a cheaper "arcade" type alternative.

I completely agree that entitlement plays a major factor. People simply can't wait for a game to be released, or wait for their pay-check to buy an interesting title. This is probably most evident in the case of blockbuster telesync movies, which are released during their cinematic screening. The cinema offers a far superior experience in terms of quality and atmosphere, but even poor quality telesyncs remain incredibly popular. I have enjoyed the theater for as long a I can remember, and would never download a movie in such manner. I say either pay for an "experience" or wait for the Blu-Ray. That said, I recently saw Guardians Of The Galaxy in the cinema and it was awesome!

The only exception to this is a kick-starter game that you missed. I have supported a couple crowd-funding games, but sometimes you miss them, or never heard of them. They can remain in development for two years or more, and while many offer the ability to buy into their Kickstarter beta testing, many do not. In that case, pirating may be the only way to try those games. I suppose "entitlement" plays a role here too. There are a lot of indie games today, and it can be hard to keep up with all of them. This is not an excuse for piracy, especially since there are videos with content reviews, as you said.

That was my argument in terms of added value for indie games. I have actually seen obviously cracked games shown on "Lets Plays" with thousands of views. [RELOADED.INFO] on the desktop right next to the executable? In that, very rare case, the attention can serve a positive purpose. That doesn't mean the act of piracy was "right" or even "acceptable" depending on your point of view, but the outcome, in that particular case, was positive for the developer. Piracy should still be frowned upon, but I don't think it's as bad as people try to make it out to be in terms of morality or revenue loss.

The Dev streams are awesome! I would have certainly bought GC2 if I was around to watch the development and keep an eye on progress like they have done with Galactic Civilizations 3. However, there really aren't very many views for the streams uploaded to YouTube. I feel like this great content is going under appreciated. Perhaps we should start some kind of campaign to draw attention to the GC3 development channel?

I couldn't agree more. I think I need to wash my hands.

PS: Of course we can be friends.

Teenagers and college kids are often quite poor and represent the bulk of piracy IMO. Teens also tend to masturbate a lot, so i suppose those two go hand-in-hand. 

We make a living off digital software and games, and as someone who is directly involved with dealing with piracy, you aren't going to find any love for stealing here.  We have always made it clear there is no tolerance for piracy.  The topic is fine, advocating for it is not.

Piracy is not a political ideology, it's stealing.

[double post]