Madlce: Why would you have to hurt their feelings? You couldn't offer some friendly advice on technique or content instead ?

Did you ever read my comments? I am alwaays friendly and always give advice. Often about technique. Sometimes I even mail people about it. But you never read my comments, did you?

Feelings? Let me tell you what feelings I have encountered when I read this thread.

Then, there are the dreaded politics, that plague the rating system.

What politics? Again intentional misconduct? Yeah! Feelings!

[...] and to the a-hole who rated my first skin so low at least step up into the light and offer some reason or are you just a coward hiding in the shadows playing games ?

What if the skin was a piece of junk. The rater would give his name and you would have punished him for his honesty?

"Elite" , "hiding in the shadows playing games", "maliciousness", I just love your choice of words.

Nice feelings!

Or are the Admins and moderators enjoying their power to squash creativity by putting their own ratings on everything. And, don't tell me politics doesn't play a part in this. Politics, meaning how popular the artist is. How you feel about the work based on your own artistic prowess. Or just, how you feel about it personally. That is all politics.

Intentional misconduct! Let's hurt the feelings of the admins and the bad people on this site!

This way the artist can hopefully get constructive feedback.

How about the people that did give feedback? Are those not constructive. Or is it constructive to tell a skin is great and needs a 10? Because, maybe we would hurt their feelings.

but it seems that the "pepole" in charge here come off as arrogant and when someone comments negatively about things they are bashed.

Everyone who does not agree may have feelings too. Those in charge do not need to defend themselves for the millionth time, just because someone again suspects intentional misconduct. I am glad I am not in charge, because I would sure like to bash you for this remark. Why? Because you don't show any feelings at all. You keep on kicking.

My point being: To ALL would be raters. If you don't care for someones style, remember there exist an infinite number of tastes amongst people who visit this site. If you are knowledge enough to offer advice on technique, content or whatever, please do so. There are most likely many would-be aspiring, worthwhile future authors in the wings who would welcome such advice. And lastly, If you feel yourself wanting to just criticize negatively; GET YOUR HAND OFF THE MOUSE AND GO TAKE A CHILL PILL!

Look at how you respond to WOM: WOM is giving his opnion. That would be fun if he gave his honest opnion on one of your skins. What should he do after giving his opnion? Move to another state because you don't agree? How is that for feelings?

I look through all newer skins (going back some days) here on a daily basis and I seldom found a skin that was rated too low. On the other hand I quite often found skins or walls that I personally considered to be rated too high (even my own ones). Just my honest 2 cents.

And there are quit a lot of 'wallpapers' in the library that are nice art, but I would never use them because I would not find any space to place my icons.

hashonboat - Your first comment regarding the rating of your piece was filled with insults and accusations thrown at the site and the admins. You were filled with anger and made it clear that you felt we were a bunch of jerks. You made ridiculous accusations and tried very hard to make your jabs hurt. Perhaps you should take a little personal responsibility for the tone of the responses you got.

Well, yes, he did spell all the words correctly. But he used the wrong word. In "I GUESS SOME PEOPLE HERE WERE BORN GREAT SKINNERS AND THEIR THE ELITE", the proper word to use is "they're". Sorry, but I had ot point that out. No disrespect intended.

#48  by Citizen hashonboat - 7/23/2003 7:50:19 AM I've have submitted other things which were accepted> I just checked and they still don't have ratings but they are up

 

......... if you had uploads that had no ratings, NO ONE would be able to see them. If a moderator didn't rate a skin when approving it, it would still have a rating, but that rating would be "0" and no one can view skins rated below "1".

Everything in your library has a rating.

I wasn't born a great skinner... I've been working at it on and off for four years and I still feel that I am only mediocre. Some people ARE born with talents in certain areas and some can never hope to be creative no matter how hard they try. Sometimes lifes lessons are hard to live with.

As much as I used to take ratings seriously, I think it's too easy for someone who doesn't like you personally to trash your rating thus I don't really pay much attention anymore. Comments from the community and my own satisfaction are far more gratifying to me at this point.

Somebody gave me a low rating... I WANT MY MOMMY

Chances are that you don't like my comments when I rate you a 4. I would have to hurt your feelings.

I stand by my position! If you are going to rate something with a low rating so the general public (the majority) won't see it, at least offer some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. If you feel you must rate a skin that low and can only offer hurtful comments then don't rate, because as I have just learned, ratings can severely impact who sees it. If you're a moderator & it's not good enough, JUST REJECT IT!

I would rather have my humble work rejected (because i know you get no explanation with rejections) than to have it accepted for a limited audience who have no constructive criticism at all, or just
" Not my style. Too simple. Too young"
What the hell is that supposed to mean? How do I interpret that when I'm trying again on another work? I don't have a clue on what direction to go in for another work from comments like that.

Myself as 1 paying customer who decided to try & get into this community have cruised this message board long enough now to find it is NOT a community dedicated to the elevation and exploration of others talents but a community comprised of clique's, ill-will, pettiness, nastiness, jealousy and hurt feelings.
The reponsibilty for that lies at the top for not directing the community in a more nurturing direction and leading by example.
To Brad Wardell in particular as CEO/Founder or whatever the title (no disrespect intended), I think it is up to you to make this a place people want to come to. It's your baby, your responsibility, this from a paying customer.

I for one started checking out this board as a newbie thinking I would get valuable tips, an occasional laugh, interesting discussions but alas it was not all good and I too have been drawn into the fray.

If I were in a position of authority here, I would promptly make it known that all threads of this nature and mischief in general that causes discontent and strife would not be allowed and promptly delete this and all similar threads, mischievious surfers, etc...

I have seen many threads re: people leaving in anger and removing their work and seen some saying good 'riddins. Is that the way it really had to go? Did the moderators think these people were so invaluable as a contributor and revenue source that they could not quash the source or their angst before it got to that point?

I can't remember seeing any threads re: people saying Hey, glad to be here, I've received so much encouragement and help. I see i've come to the right place.

And for those who would say if I don't like it then leave. TOO BAD! I paid my money, I'm here. I have an opinion as valid as any other and I'll let it be known as long as permitted to.

Confucios say:

When a dog comes up to you wagging his tail, he is looking to be petted or to play or something.
If you ignore him, he'll eventually go to another person to play with.
If you kick him, he'll become a mean dog

Maybe that's a bad analogy. Just my opinion

If anyone can offer some constructive criticism regarding my work, please look it up & do so. That's what I'm looking for.

If you don't have anything constructive to say about my work SHUT UP

yeah I feel real motivated to give you some helpful criticism.  

Well, yes, he did spell all the words correctly. But he used the wrong word. In "I GUESS SOME PEOPLE HERE WERE BORN GREAT SKINNERS AND THEIR THE ELITE", the proper word to use is "they're". Sorry, but I had ot point that out. No disrespect intended.

Yeah, I know, I saw that. I need to use spell check since I can't type.

......... if you had uploads that had no ratings, NO ONE would be able to see them. If a moderator didn't rate a skin when approving it, it would still have a rating, but that rating would be "0" and no one can view skins rated below "1".Everything in your library has a rating.

My bad. I was looking at the comments column.

By the way the ONLY reason it ticked me off to have gotten such a low rating ( i have other low ones too) is when I found out that not very many people would see it and that some people occasionally run around maliciously giving low ratings and no constructive explanation was afforded it, well I don't like sneaky, malicious you know whats.
And I don't believe this board is moderated in such a manner as to encourage positive discussion and constructive advice.

I can't remember seeing any threads re: people saying Hey, glad to be here, I've received so much encouragement and help. I see i've come to the right place.

You are so very wrong. There have been plenty of threads like that and there are many people who are proud and happy to be a part of this community.

By the way the ONLY reason it ticked me off to have gotten such a low rating ( i have other low ones too) is when I found out that not very many people would see it and that some people occasionally run around maliciously giving low ratings and no constructive explanation was afforded it, well I don't like sneaky, malicious you know whats.

The only people that will not see it are the ones that have their preferences set. You have taken what I started off with and really turned things around and made this whole thing about you. Trust me, none of what I was referring to in my opening comment was about you. These were things I have taken notice to with some skinners works. None being yours.
[Message Edited]

I for one am not happy....I paid a subscription thinking I was at the right place.....all of this was before I started going onto the messageboard. Only to find out that a lot of what hashonboat has to say is true. You have your positive comments where people are happy here and then you have those that aren't but want to stay. It's up to the site to fix the problem because the person might leave but the problem will stay because someone else will take his place feeling the way he does.

The site needs to have a good sense of community otherwise the messageboard will always look the way it does. Maybe you are just satisfied with people just getting skins, and walls and not participate in good discussions on the messageboard. Instead of attacking the person you need to attack the problem. This is not an isolated one rather a persistent one that continues to have people leave rather then stay. I too feel that my "opinion" counts because I paid the subsription and I'll be damned if anyone can tell me otherwise. Too bad there aren't refunds.

Hey..Green_Armani...Your artwork is still beautiful

I agree 100% with what you just said I'm about ready to pull out of here and start doing MSStyles because of the ridiculous mistreatment of me in the StyleXP or StyleBuilder thread.

I love the skinning...I'm glad I found an alternative in doing MSStyles...

I am also happy that...Jafo and MadIce through both of their misguided actions have now given me the extra kick I needed to try it out


[Message Edited]

I was having ratings problems too.My wb was not available to the public.But I emailed Jafo and stated my case calmly and was patient and he fixed it.So the system does work Hash.I do agree however with you on how ratings affect a skins availability.I like it here and i definately feel a sense of community.If there wasnt this thread wouldnt attract any attewntion at all because no one would care.Could things be any better? Sure...if they did everything the way I said. I think Zodiaq is pulling our collective legs.

Ooops! After reading a different thread maybe he wasnt kidding.Sorry Zodiaq.

It's ok I.R. Brainiac...I don't understand why threads have to come to this

I have never been one to frequent message boards or even use chat programs...Guess I wasn't really missing much

Although I must say there are some very fine people here, it's just a few that need the controversy and like to stir it up for what ever reason...I dunno...It's just plain wierd

ratings are used to show the skins. If a skin has a rating of 6 or less it will not be shown to most users.

Keila, this is where I got the idea that it wouldn't be seen by most people. And I apologize to you . I didn't mean to make this thread about me. I just got ticked off at the curt responses hurled my way.

So Sorry! I shall retreat from this thread.

I think this is a good newbie site as far as submitting a wall, skin or other so that someone else who is deemed as "competent" can moderate them. Gives you a sense of comfort when something makes it or it doesn't. For me I think I can make anything just as good or if not better then the moderators who "act" like they are all knowing but in reality can't and haven't shown me the best here on WC. I know they were picked to critique others stuff but I have seen several threads where someone has complained about a WB skin or the like and the only response they get is "I just went to see if you had any skins and you don't...so be quite" Very good and repsectful from a moderator right? I think not.

There are other sites people, other places on the web you can get what you want. Don't seclude yourself into just being on WC.

Unfortunately, some people have their preferences set that they do not see a skin below a certain rating and because someone came along and did this to your work your skin will not even be viewed by some people.

hashonboat, this is what I wrote in my opening statement and was going by what I had said. You do not need to not reply on this thread but please for your own good think things out before you do. Even before I started this thread I thought long and hard about what I was going to say and how I was going to say it so as not to start a problem. The last things this board needs is new ones.
The point I was trying to make to begin with was about people who will rate lower for reasons other then the skin itself. I just wanted to say something in hopes that those who may have done it would think twice before they do it to someone again.
Other then that the rating system itself works. Remember, it is not always the fault of the system but of the people within.

hashonboat....my suggestion to keep the discussion private is out of respect and common decency....not wishing to air comment/s publicly since I had no idea whether you desired/preferred public exposure or not.

Forgive me if even this consideration is perceived as objectionable.

Okay I guess it is time to say something here. I'm sorry for singling out anyone but, I feel it needs to be said.

I read something very positive and constructive in hashonboat's responses and I feel it should be mentioned. I think the rest is not his responsibility but the result of leading examples.

"The reponsibilty for that lies at the top for not directing the community in a more nurturing direction and leading by example." (From Hashonboat)


Then I will quote Jafo's comments which do not lead by example.

"why should we waste our time on ingrates" (not leading by example)

So, artists here who submit free work only for the profit of Stardock are ingrates? Where would Stardock be and Wincoustomize for that matter without these "ingrates"?

"really says a lot for appreciating efforts, their true colours, and whether a person will actually be 'missed' as a valid contributor or just a pain in the butt."

So now, we are a pain in the butt, showing our true colors, for submitting work here for the profit of someone else?

"claiming the sky is falling due to 'Conspiracies R Us' or some such."

You say some of the most constructive and helpful things Jafo.

"Politics is not an issue....you still have a voice here, do you not?"

Another threat from Jafo. One of the many. Not helpful or constructive and definitely not leading by example. It seems to me that he is saying, if you don't like something you better be quiet or we may ban you. A dictatorship?

"And you, ChasUGC are a superior being, capable of bias-free apolitical, independent and objective valuation....because you are NOT a moderator......what a load of unmitigated crap."

Insult me. Call me names. Say I am full of crap. Am I a superior being? Am I not human? Do I not bleed when cut? Oh Jafo, slash me up. Show this community how to conduct itself. DEFINITELY NOT LEADING BY EXAMPLE.

'Nuff said. But personally Jafo, and I'm sorry I need to say it, but I think you are a great example and explanation for the slashing, slamming and bashing that goes on here. And the reason many artists feel mistreated and leave. People like you, and hopefully you are of the minority of these types of administrators, rate skins with your attitudes spewed here, for all others to read, and you demonstrate as a good leading example of how to treat people and artists of the community.

oh please, enough already... what's with this Jafo bashing thing anyway? I don't get it. It's like you're not gonna let up until it gets bloody or something. I think we've all had enough of this and just for the record, if this site was as bad you'd have us believe it would never tolerate posts like these.  Speak your mind but stop attacking anything that moves... we have rules about that and frankly I've heard enough. Give it a rest, please...

Well now that that has been said (aND IT NEEDED TO BE) I will say this: I get treated like CRAP all the time from the admins with the exceptions of Paxx, Karmakirl, and DavidK.

Comeon, you admins might have power but you need to tone it all done. Get off your high horse.

WHAT MAKES YOU MORE HOLIER THAN THOU?

I am sick of being called a troll or getting flamed. If my statements are not true or slighly out of line, tell me don't make fun of me and bash me.

enoughs enough. I support Chase's statement in all respects.

good grief!