Multianna's feedback!?

from Sins Forums
This is not some sort of "i will leave if i dont get what i want" kind of post, god no lol. Im just letting my thoughts out as i feel, so please bare with me

To get this one started ill start with a quote from the "Gameplay Feedback" thread (Reply #111)

With regard to the issue at hand, it seems that a lot of people expected the Vasari to be extremely powerful individually, balanced by a lack of numbers: specifically, much increased resource and fleet capacity costs. I don't really see that this is incompatible with them being a more finesse-oriented race, in the manner that you've stated. I think that most people would agree (though clearly I can't speak for them) that what they want is a balance where one-on-one a Vasari warship will decisively defeat its approximate TEC counterpart -- but the TEC will always have superior numbers of ships, such that resource-to-resource the Vasari can't quite stand head to head with their enemies. The Vasari are technologically superior, but their population is very limited, and losses should hurt them far more than they hurt the entrenched, numerically-superior TEC.
End of quote


Thats exactly what i (as i can only speak for myself) were expecting. I were very surprised when i started up the Vasari in a single player game (to test them out), that why the cost the same as the TEC, and wy i were so easly losing in combat against the AI TEC. I didnt think much about it as i were just fooling around and that i believed the AI had become much better.
So after that, i decided to play a Multiplayer game, just to find myself losing almost every encounter i got with the TEC. I was like, huh? this cant be right (even against the pirates). So after a few games, were i could see that the Vasari wasnt as ive had thought they would been, I made the "Vasari underpowered", as i believed something were wrong.
But to see (as of Yarlens post (Reply #106)) what ive been believing (with all the interviews/reviews/previews and the cronos fansite) for around 2 years aint being true, is like being stabbed in the heart lol. Its like your expecting some really cool but your given Star Trek legacy

Thats why ive been defending what i believed in the "Vasari is underpowered!?", "The Vasari are NOT the fricking PROTOSS!" and the "Gameplay Feedback" threads.

Yes i know its a gameplay beta where we test balance ect. but to hear now after so long they aint going to be as expected is a huge dissepointment

Ive never been much of a tactical/number control freakess player, i do find some of my own ways to play, but many comes from replays where i get ideas and combining them with my own. But for me the coolness aint in those, its in the fun and different ways you can play the races. Just now the Vasari just seems like any other RTS game out there with just a few twist here and there.
Like in supcom all 3 factions are almost the same with a few differences in play stile and units uniqueness.
I were even able to be among the 500 best, but got soo bored as i had to play like everyone else to be there (oh and sins beta 1 was about to be released )

As far as i understood what Blair said in the "The Vasari are NOT the fricking PROTOSS!" thread (Reply #68), he was into for changing the Vasari to have lessor units and TEC to have more. And he used the word "exagerate" and i had to look that up, and it means HUGE difference, but got confused because of this in the "Vasari is underpowered!?" thread (Reply #112):
(Schod)there really isnt any MAJOR changes to be made.
End of quote


(Multianna)oh but there will
End of quote

(Ron Lugge)
The devs haven't confirmed anything about major that I've seen (though I'm still digging through the backlog...) A minor rebalance towards strength in individuals, yes. The kind of radical ones you guys want? No.
End of quote

So maybe he didnt read it, i dunno, but with Yarlens post this was just way dissepointing.

I dont write long posts unless it is worth taking a long time to say, cause of my lack of words, also a reason i dont discuss this on #sins IRC

I didnt know what to call this kind of post, so i called it feedback
5,337 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top


As far as i understood what Blair said in the "The Vasari are NOT the fricking PROTOSS!" thread (Reply #68), he was into for changing the Vasari to have lessor units and TEC to have more. And he used the word "exagerate" and i had to look that up, and it means HUGE difference, but got confused because of this in the "Vasari is underpowered!?" thread (Reply #112):
End of quote


I don't know what dictionary your using, but its way off.

1. to magnify beyond the limits of truth; overstate; represent disproportionately: to exaggerate the difficulties of a situation.
2. to increase or enlarge abnormally: Those shoes exaggerate the size of my feet.
–verb (used without object)
3. to employ exaggeration, as in speech or writing: a person who is always exaggerating.

In this case, what he's saying is that he wants to increase the difference -- not a statement as to how far its going. he could increase it by 1%, and it would be an exageration, or 10,000% and it'd still be exageration. And he stated clearly he was speaking for himself, not as a dev "this will be done".
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Actually, right now the Vasari are almost overpowered late game. They're dark-fleet ability really gives them an advantage. They also seem to have more strike-craft than the tec. (I'm Snowman to anyone who doesn't know. I hanged around in IRC and played a few games of sins)
CursorFX - Customize your Windows cursor
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Ron Lugge
yeah it was number 2, so to understand what he said i "replaced" the word "exageration" with "increase or enlarge abnormally"

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Late game advantage definetly goes to the Vasari. Dark Fleet is a game ender, and will rarely if ever be used in a Multiplayer game. Much like Insurgency. The early game it is TEC that is overpowered. Due to its economic, and production advantage.

Vasari do have more strike craft, but they dont seem much more effective than TEC's that i noticed.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
How about a major test of the units and techs?
3-6 fights 1vs1 unit
to see if the vasari are really underpowered or if your only expecting something else...

2 Players
a medium map
no research at first
kill pirates
get planets and fleet size upgrades
each send one single unit in a system and let em fight ... till all fought
then tech up and fight

???????????
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
It is already known that ship vs ship Vasari slightly outmatch TEC. Though your suggestion does hold merit, and is worth a try.

I have a better suggestion

No flagships, No pir8's, Max tech level of 3 (both empire, and military) 1 v 1 Vasari vs TEC. Capture, and build on only 3 planets. See who can field the better fleets the fastest.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Someone could build a map for that scenario...
lordkosc
or maybe I... but my time is limited
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
I think the key bummer right now is that while the Vasari are meant to have their nifty mobility/phase tricks, they almost never see the light of day in anything less than a large game. I mean, we played a 3v3 last night and there just wasn't enough time to get to phase gates or the support cruisers.

Without that, the Vasari strategy is basically the same as the TECs, only with ships that have more survivability and that cost more

If this were to change (and the devs recognized this issue), that would make key gameplay elements different in the smaller games as well!
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
Hmmm maybe bumb the PhaseGateTechnologie down to the bottom of the techtree.... maybe cheaper...
That would give the Vasari a strong defense and a possible way to attack from an unknown side, even at the "start" of a game.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

yeah it was number 2, so to understand what he said i "replaced" the word "exageration" with "increase or enlarge abnormally"
End of quote


Yeah, I don't like the meanings there. Looking back, they don't have anything that covers what this (particular) context means, to increase (exaggerate) the existing distinction.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
you all know what I'm going to say, so I'm going to say it quickly with no insults:

What was expected is obviously different from what was delivered, I myself find that a good thing. the Vaz are certainly more differentiated than most people seem to be catching onto, certainly more than anything "near" the TEC. I'm fine with making the Vasari units more powerful and more expensive, however I'm 100% against the drastic change in vaz gameplay style.