Initial Impressions and ideas - Finally Pre-Ordered Got BETA4

from Sins Forums
Now first of all congrats, a more polished game in BETA than some games are released to market with. I am enjoying the game

3D Formations - can we have some formations for the ships. Some tactical ones to set before jumping into battle. Ships just tend to face off at random or in a line, looks very artificial. Movement would be good. ATM they just stop and fire until one is dead. I could understand this a little more if the distance were greater but it is not

Solar Systems - any plans to make these look real - i.e. eliptical orbits. It looks a little wierd the way the panets are situated near the sun atm. like they are never going to move.

radio towers and a counter- cultural buildings
I hate these things as you cannot counter them, even after you blow a
planet to smitherines the population will not yield. Are my citizens ZOMBIES ALL. Are none loyal? And the effect is ongoing, why? Why if no radio towers should the effect keep spreading?
Surely there should be a counter to this like, say, cultural/welfare buildings

Diplomacy\trade - is this going to be a bit more complex like GAlciv2? Feels like no real choices atm. For instance I cannot give some money and a planet to bribe an enemy to stop attacking.

ships types/roles - it seems that their are really only two types. Small(corvettes) and large (caps).
The in between types are not really accessable for most of the game. They do not get to play a role really. I think more ship classes would also be better.
I just get the feeling their is not enough variety to give chance and experimentation with fleet composition a go. Everyone knows all the ship types to well after just one game.

Say (actually a list compiled by me for eTW lol) but you get the picture
fireships
frigates
light frigates
heavy frigates
Super frigate
bombship
1st rate:100 gun (3 deck) deck ship of the line
2nd Rate: 90-98 gun ship of the line, next largest
3rd Rate: 64-80 gun ship of the line
4th Rate: 40-60 gun ship of the line.
5th Rate: 36 gun ship, as long as a first rate, but fewer cannons
6th Rate: 28-30 gun ship, also long and low.
Flagship
cutter
ships yacht
ships boats
hulk
schooner
sloop
gig
corvette
brig
galleon
galley
fluyt
barque
Brigantin
Galley (the American one, not that Medi ones)
Felucca
Tartane
Parancelle
Xebec
Mark
Smak
Cutter
Lugger
Chasse-Marée
Barquentine
Gunboats/Guard boats
Bomb ketch (both single and double varieties)
Ketch
exploration ships
hospital ships
hulks (generic transport ships)
whaling ship
5,628 views 24 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
3D formations: well the ships do take 3D formation when you jump, but in grav well I think you can have them fly in formation. would be cool though.

solar system: has been mentioned several times: I think very early the devs played around with that thought it was just deemed not fun and too complicated to implement. correct if I'm wrong on this.

cultural buildings: well, you can counter them with more cultural building on your planets or taking out the centres of your enemies. but youre onto sth. a planet upgrade for improved cultural resistance or a seperate tech would be cool. what I mean is sth strictly passive, so that lines don't spread but your planets are less likely to submit to culture changes.

ships: if I understood correctly the intention was to make all ships useful throughout the game, so there are no progression and one isnt better than another, just better suited for a particular role. and you should really use the cruisers, the are support ships ( most of them) and great at that. they are a bit high in tech, but thats ok, since they are quite powerful.

edit: to the cultural thing: how about a tech that has the "emergency infrastructure" give a defensive bonus to the culture centres. that way you still need to build them, but not as many, and culture still has its uses as improving allegiance.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

solar system: has been mentioned several times: I think very early the devs played around with that thought it was just deemed not fun and too complicated to implement. correct if I'm wrong on this.
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Quite correct -- the original, in house, versions of the game had true orbiting and Newtonian physics for maneuvering. But it was deemed "not fun" and cut.
And the effect is ongoing, why? Why if no radio towers should the effect keep spreading?
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I've noticed there's a slight "inertia" to culture -- any changes take a while to take effect, both increasing and decreasing the strength of a culture.

ships types/roles - it seems that their are really only two types. Small(corvettes) and large (caps).
The in between types are not really accessable for most of the game. They do not get to play a role really. I think more ship classes would also be better.
I just get the feeling their is not enough variety to give chance and experimentation with fleet composition a go. Everyone knows all the ship types to well after just one game.
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While cruisers are moderately high on the tech tree, don't ignore them -- they are powerful units properly used. And if you really look, the devs can hardly add more types of ships as things stand, as pretty much all "roles" have been filled.
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
On the cruiser usefulness note, it's usually easier to notice how powerful they are for Vasari, as some cruisers phase mid-gravwell to enemy ships and shut them down completely.. no weapons, no engines, nothing. They can shut down gauss platforms and missile turrets. Some are like mobile psi-dar, can dedect anything incoming to the planet the cruiser is in, regardless of whether you own it or not, and at the same time it can *slow* incoming enemy phase speeds.

TEC cruisers are more defensive and behind the scenes, so it's harder to notice them but they really increase your ships' longevity with repair/shield restore
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
thanks guys but I think I used the wrong terminology. What are the mid sized ships that are waaaay up the tech tree called. They are the second ship menu in the first ship factory. iirc the Kodiak is one of them. Possibly Destroyers?
The cruisers are in the capital ship factory I think.

Damn, shame about the newtonian physics for maneover and true orbits I would have loved that.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
No, you used the correct terminology.. they are all cruisers

Capitals don't have a single ship class. One is a Battlecruiser, one is a Battleship, one is a Dreadnought, one is a Carrier, etc

Well, the Vasari obviously use different classes (Marauder, Desolator, yadda yadda)
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
nope just checked, they are cruisers I was talking about. Considering cruisers in real life are the same size as battleships this is strange.

BTW - Are their any features at this late stage that have not been added or are planned? OR is this it as it stands in Beta 4? Especially with regard to diplomacy and trade.
Also are the graphics for the pirate and other bulletins going to be updated?
One other thing I would love to see is a colour palate when choosing faction colours, much like DOW or HW2. I also hope that the faction icons are moddable and more can be added not just replaced
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
nope just checked, they are cruisers I was talking about. Considering cruisers in real life are the same size as battleships this is strange.
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Sins has the names, but doesn't always follow the same roles

BTW - Are their any features at this late stage that have not been added or are planned? OR is this it as it stands in Beta 4? Especially with regard to diplomacy and trade.
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There are features still in the works that we haven't seen. I believe it's only a few days until the game needs to be feature locked and completed, but even then the devs want to save a lot for release, so we're unlikely to see it in beta 4.

Also are the graphics for the pirate and other bulletins going to be updated?
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Racial ship graphics should be final, one pirate ship type was changed with beta 4, we may or may not see more.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Especially with regard to diplomacy and trade.
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There is a fair bit of material not released yet and the diplomacy overhaul is one of them.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
Beat you to it!

*hides*
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
not by much! lol
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
don't seem to be able to edit my posts atm.


CAN NEWTONIAN PHYSICS BE TURNED BACK ON AS AN OPTION? this would be very cool.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
You can't edit posts after they've been replied to

But no, don't count on a toggle to turn newtonian physics on/off. It's out for good.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
thanks, i see.
Problem for me is I was trying to edit before the page refreshed

This game is an absolute diamond in the rough, I'm sure it will be huge when its released! I find myself even now coming back for more......

Newtonian Physic though ... that would have been a sight to see. But yes in RL its gonna be hard for admirals to impliment.... flying past their prey at a billiob miles an hours and turning to fire as they go. I guess thats why only obstacles and destinations in space will be realistic battlefields, where you have to slow down to navigate or supply or gravity well etc.
I guess we can pass this off as having the sides with tech that negates the lack of gravity in space.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
But yes in RL its gonna be hard for admirals to impliment.... flying past their prey at a billiob miles an hours and turning to fire as they go.
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Solution: slow down before you reach your enemy.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
Surely there should be a counter to this like, say, cultural/welfare buildings
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capital ships need to have a LOT more counterculture, they should be able to completely wipe culture from even a heavily fortified culturathon region (en masse)
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
It does seem as though locking the map down and making colonization impossible is problematic. A multiple system game would be a real pain in the ass to expand into your enemy lands with an interior desert having the entire place at 100% culture. On a particularly scrambled random map even a one star system can be a real pain with the ai recolonizing all the planets you can't secure because of the bloody culture being generated deeper in.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Its not only recolonisation though, its the continuous spread via radio stations. I have seen 5 planets in a row conquered by one measly station 6 planets away in a line.
The AI at the moment cannot counter it, if it could that would be somewhat better.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah, but that's more a problem of the ai sucking monkey nuts than culture spread. It slows down at every jump, so one station six planets away should never even get past the first planet, let alone the second. Even one station on the second should be enough to keep that first from flipping.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
With the risk of comment hijacking, I too just jumped into the beta, especially after I've seen the video demo of it on Gamespot. I have to say that unlike "Steam", Stardock is a gem. Fast, easy, no bullshit, lots of independent developers.
My impressions/wishlist from the game:

- Battles are not exciting enough - sorry, but the ships are just standing there shooting at each other. The only thing a bit exciting is to follow bomber squads. Ships should slightly move, to give a sense that they're flying through space, when capital ships duke it out it should be more like Freespace or Galactica (slowly moving into range of each other and then opening fire like in sea battles). A camera that takes you into the heat of the action would also be nice.

- No control over ships - maybe I'm the one who is missing something here, but I sent a recon ship to an edge of a system to snoop on enemy movement and every time it decided to attack the enemies on its own. Setting the aggression levels of ships would be highly appreciated. This could also help build up new types of game play, such as electronic warefare ship, jamming communication between the ships and the home base (enemy loses control over ships until their AI is able to destroy the jammer). This is the type of "playing dirty" tactics I would love to see more from the game...

- Login to Ironclad online - when registering it doesn't ask to confirm password. That will be a cause for issues... a "Remember me" option would also be nice.

- Either more races or more *apparent* differences between the races - I guess there are subtle differences between the races but after a few days - I still don't see it.

- A tech ability (relatively high on the tech tree) that would allow to build structures in the gravity wells of stars (not planets), gas giants and nebulas.. Like the jump gates, these kind of discoveries can really turn the game around, add interesting tactics and change the tide of war.

- A more interesting galaxy - Much like Gal Civ 2, have some global effects taking place sometimes, like all jump connections disappear for a few minutes, etc. (the player should also have an option to disable it). Also, some more independent factions (not only pirates and local militia) could also add to the "liveliness" of the galaxy - traders, bounty hunters, etc.

All in all, this game looks pretty good... haven't played it online yet.. looking forward to.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

With the risk of comment hijacking, I too just jumped into the beta, especially after I've seen the video demo of it on Gamespot. I have to say that unlike "Steam", Stardock is a gem. Fast, easy, no bullshit, lots of independent developers.
My impressions/wishlist from the game:

- Battles are not exciting enough - sorry, but the ships are just standing there shooting at each other. The only thing a bit exciting is to follow bomber squads. Ships should slightly move, to give a sense that they're flying through space, when capital ships duke it out it should be more like Freespace or Galactica (slowly moving into range of each other and then opening fire like in sea battles). A camera that takes you into the heat of the action would also be nice.

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I think this will change somewhat when you play vs a competent human player. usually there is quite a bit of movement during battles when players decide which targets to attack or when individual capital ships reatreat. the latter ones have multiple guns distributed either focused forwars or throughout the ship, depends.


- No control over ships - maybe I'm the one who is missing something here, but I sent a recon ship to an edge of a system to snoop on enemy movement and every time it decided to attack the enemies on its own. Setting the aggression levels of ships would be highly appreciated. This could also help build up new types of game play, such as electronic warefare ship, jamming communication between the ships and the home base (enemy loses control over ships until their AI is able to destroy the jammer). This is the type of "playing dirty" tactics I would love to see more from the game...
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the feature is already in. when you right click on the attack button it will switch through stances.


- Login to Ironclad online - when registering it doesn't ask to confirm password. That will be a cause for issues... a "Remember me" option would also be nice.
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not sure what your issue is here. what I do note that there is either no way or I just never figured it out, but everytime I want to log in I have to enter account name and pw, yes here a "remember me" option would be nice. but the tester in the gamespot video had something like that so ...


- Either more races or more *apparent* differences between the races - I guess there are subtle differences between the races but after a few days - I still don't see it.
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trust me, there is a good amount of difference. its mainly in the techs and capship abilites, but thats enough anyways.


- A tech ability (relatively high on the tech tree) that would allow to build structures in the gravity wells of stars (not planets), gas giants and nebulas.. Like the jump gates, these kind of discoveries can really turn the game around, add interesting tactics and change the tide of war.
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rather not, these things are MEANT to be neutral ground so that no one can have an advantage there. building stuff would just make them another type of the colonizable planets.


- A more interesting galaxy - Much like Gal Civ 2, have some global effects taking place sometimes, like all jump connections disappear for a few minutes, etc. (the player should also have an option to disable it). Also, some more independent factions (not only pirates and local militia) could also add to the "liveliness" of the galaxy - traders, bounty hunters, etc.

All in all, this game looks pretty good... haven't played it online yet.. looking forward to.
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random events have been mentioned a couple of times, it may be in, I'm not sure. at least it was considered from what I hear.
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
- Login to Ironclad online - when registering it doesn't ask to confirm password. That will be a cause for issues... a "Remember me" option would also be nice.
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In beta the ICO lobby is very basic and barebones, just to facilitate MP games. The final release will have a more developed lobby
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

- No control over ships - maybe I'm the one who is missing something here, but I sent a recon ship to an edge of a system to snoop on enemy movement and every time it decided to attack the enemies on its own. Setting the aggression levels of ships would be highly appreciated. This could also help build up new types of game play, such as electronic warefare ship, jamming communication between the ships and the home base (enemy loses control over ships until their AI is able to destroy the jammer). This is the type of "playing dirty" tactics I would love to see more from the game...
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Right click on the attack / move buttons to toggle the attack and movement "controls"


- A tech ability (relatively high on the tech tree) that would allow to build structures in the gravity wells of stars (not planets), gas giants and nebulas.. Like the jump gates, these kind of discoveries can really turn the game around, add interesting tactics and change the tide of war.
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We were screaming for neutral battlegrounds other than the star -- now, we've gotten what we wanted.
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
- Login to Ironclad online - when registering it doesn't ask to confirm password. That will be a cause for issues... a "Remember me" option would also be nice.
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Hah. I mentioned this after my friend mistyped his password all the way back on day one of beta 3.