The sooner you learn Returning Armada sucks, the sooner you'll be on your way to be decent

Speaking of which, what does the +8 civ upgrade do exactly? And what's so special about TEC trade ports?

Because the TEC used to be just traders, they're trade ports = uber income.

what does the 8+ civ upgrade do? Increase tax income?

tec get resources at a percentage of 20% of what all empires purchased and 15% of what all empires traded.

Has anyone tried building 5-9 TEC trade ports at each planet, It got to insane levels of income when I tried it. I went from 50 cedits/sec to around 150 cedit/sec after fleet upkeep (Would have been almost 200/sec if I hadn't gotten fleet upkeep). And I only did that at a few planets, and I filled up the empty spots on my planets with trade ports.

Note, that most likly will not work in a real game, I was just curious, and decided to test it.

You get +8 logic spots per planet so you can build 2 more logics building (IE 2 more mil, 2 more civ, 2 more trade ports, 2 more ore refineries.)
It's too good frankly and should just be +4 IMO, but whatever.
Advent has a similar tech to get +4 tactical but.. yeah.. that's far from as useful, not worth researching.

Against the computer it rocks, but online, forget it.

LOL

As much as you're trying to show your superiority by flat out saying the most imbalanced tech "sucks", you cannot be any more wrong on some of your points.

Clearly you have been playing with/against noobs and haven't seen how devastating a properly executed RA rush can be, even on single star maps. This is doubly true when your opponents need to beat through your teammates before they can get to you. The Vasari ultimate tech is indeed Dark Armada. Once someone gets it going, it's GG.

Well executed LRM spam isn't really counterable except for more lrm spam from the opposing side. OR you can get flak ships/carriers and hope your opponent is an idiot.

When LRM spam is done properly, it's impossible for advent to beat. Disciples are obviously a bad choice. Seekers, carriers, and defense vessels kill too slowly and LRM's can just bypass them and kill your cap ship/structures, forcing you to stay on the defensive. SMART lrm users will kill cap ships, then frig factory/research stations. They won't engage in a pointless battle with those other "supposedly lrm-counter" ships. You've probably experienced success by using flak to counter lrms. This is because the people you played against actually tried to kill your flak with their lrms instead of using them to kill specific targets.

In short, LRM's deal too much damage and nothing kills them fast enough for an equivalent cost. Further more, all the ships that are decent against LRM's suck versus pretty much any other target, whereas LRM's are great at killing light frigs, cap ships, turrets, etc etc.

I will agree that illums suck.

RA does not suck. Players suck who take huge risks by "rushing" for it at the expense of their allies or their own security. If a you let a game drag on too long vs a Vasari, he will eventually get to RA. If a team of 3 elects to have 2 people play interference while the Vasari techs up, those two people might almost get knocked out, but the Vasari will be able to single handedly fight the opposing team at about 45 -60 minutes into the game. Especially on larger maps, this is not a sucky technology.

Don't get me wrong, RA's success is dependent on circumstances and it can be risky to implement sometimes. Once it is in full swing and you have started amassing forces it is just stupid overpowered. While it should obviously be powerful, it shouldn't be the Doomsday clock that it is currently.

In the meantime, keep killing those sucky Vasari who tech rush and don't build defenses.

RA is extremely effective in ffa and probably too good, whereby most players will not risk devoting a small fleet (what you can get in the first 40-50 minutes) to eliminating a whole empire on one front and leaving all their other fronts completely open.

example
4 ffa, 2 players are vasari, 2 are not and a medium map. most players get 5-6 planets.
In this game even if 3 of the people all make a secret pact to take one vasari down, by time his down the other vasari could be close to getting RA (he didnt commit to really taking out the other vasari) and should be smart enough in knowing that his gonna be backstabbed first. If its an ffa whereby everyone plays nicely and no secret pacts..etc then usually none of the players will take a massive risk of leaving 2 of their 3 fronts open( most maps are like that for 4 ffa) to do a full on empire wiping attack in the first portion of the game and thus eventually (can be under 55 minutes with only 4 planets) one of the vasari will get to RA.

Theres many other factors, but in ffa, it can even depend on how well you smurf and get others to fight amongst themselves which buys you time delaying a significant strike.

Agree; Even if you know your opponent is just massing LRMs there is no decent counter strategy other than massing LRMs yourself, flaks will survive in a fleet fight and will eventually kill their mass fleet but it takes way too long and they have to sit there letting you shoot them. Meanwhile he's doing way more damage to your capital which will force you to retreat it or have it die in which case it's game over.

The damage types just don't make any sense, there's too many for the amount of units that there are, if flaks are supposed to be a counter for LRMs then they should do 150% to light armour instead of 100% or what would make more sense is having LRMs counter heavier units and regular frigs counter LRMs. And can someone explain why anti-heavy units do less damage to capitals than anti-medium?

As it stands the game basically comes down to mass LRMs with a few flaks early game and mass heavy cruisers with support ships late game.

This is for 1v1/2v2 on 1 star maps, against anyone decent fast civ teching will get you killed very fast.

Uhh why is +8 civ only good against the CPU? It allows you to build more trade ports/ore refineries, or frigate factories, on your best defended planets
I have a feelign you don't really understand what it does, like most people.


Keep telling yourself that. Enjoy never becoming a good player.

If you'd like to play some time, sounds good. My name is PrinceOfTheUniverse and I'm on about every night.

I've beaten countless people that just trying to these "OMG UNBEATABLE STRATEGIES" I guess people have heard about here on the forums or seen online. That's not how you play the game.


These last responses are sad. It's what I expected, people are so ignorant. You guys need to try playing against someone with 75+ games with these "omg unbeatable strategies".
But it's like I said, you're not going to become better if you realise how stupid those strategies are. If you don't understand why they fail, I'm sorry for you. I won't explain why they're bad, learn that on your own.

I'm not even going to comment on how stupid what you said about flaks needing to do more than 100% damage to LRM's to counter them is. Figure that out for yourself. I can explain but people will stay ignorant I'm sure.

To innociv, good lord you are a twat. Actually say something instead of just crowing about how good of a player you aren't. Geez.

Anyway, I agree on the point about LRMs and Advent. LRMS force you to build defense vessels, which don't actually do anything. However I think carriers are fairly decent counters to LRM, as 4 fighters can kill an LRM in one pass.

Of course, if you go all fighters, again, you can't really do anything. You can counter LRMS strategically though, by building multiple frigate factories in different locations, and being aggressive. Split your fleets into harassment and defense components, and you can buy the time you need to advance.

A fleet full of bombers can hit and run better than LRMs, and do some damage before running away. Flak of course will cause pain, but again it's that Flak equation again- more flaks means less LRMs. You can engage on the 'hit and run' philosophy too, forcing him to attack you. Of course, this is just buying time so you can level up Malice/Radiance and then hammer him with some kind of crazy Guardian Destra combo.

innociv must be the village idiot.

"_______ sucks" no that's just you kiddo.

Don't colonize new planets? Stall your economy... right.
Because 50000 credits does a lot of good with under 100 crystal and metal...

Your thread reeks of disdain. Learn how to play instead of getting raged and telling people that everything sucks.

I agree with Innociv's evaluation of massed lrms. They are highly overrated. As a TEC player I rarely use more than 15 LRM's in any fleet that I build. They are just for a little long range fire support. The resources spent ammassing a large LRM fleet could be better spent fielding a heavily researched/high powered mixed fleet, that can take on any race. I put my cash into maxing out ballistics/lasers,armor,and increased Cap ship maneuvreability. One good way to beat massed anything in this game is to use the old Homeworld tactic of moving while attacking. Closing the firing distance between them and yourself also tends to remove their range advantage. I personally employ micro heavy cruisers (with "intercept") and flaks to close the range and pummel them while my robotics heal me and hurt them.

edit: I also add in 2-3 Cielo (designate target) in my small micro heavy cruiser fleet to direct all of those flak guns.

The tone of Innociv's speech does sound like the thread only exists to attract attention and flames. He could have criticized Returning Armada, long-range frigates, colonization, carriers, heavy cruisers, and shield mitigation in a more intelligent manner(apart from a bunch of 'that sucks' one-liners), but it is true that spamming of any one type of unit is not much of a strategy.



The concept behind LRM spam is not in the same context as your idea of spending those resources in linear research. LRM spam is an early-game tactic to harass the enemy, stunt their progress, and make them invest resources in niche counters to stop your blitzkrieg. Another thing is that techno-turtling is vulnerable to tech rushes by your opponent and harassment against you(resources invested in research = weaker defensive fleet), and the TEC's advanced warships are kind of lousy in comparison with their Advent/Vasari counterparts.

I used to agree with people that I thought the game was unbalanced, and then finally i had the opportunity of playing against a team of pros that was able to dominate my LRM spam, and my teammate who had RA

try not to believe in the people that tell you the game is unbalanced, and that there are uber strategies to win the game.

innociv is correct, there are counters for everything in this game

also, it has already been shown how to counter RA. see the below forum for the discussion on how its done, along with an amazing replay of basically 2 advent players beating 3 players with RA:
here

having some of each unit, and balance, support ships, is the most solid way of playing. thats how the game is intended, and thats how the game actually works.

You haven't played enough if you think flaks are only good against lrms and fighters.

Even against light frigs, which counter them they do alright.
Why? Because for almost the same cost they have double the hp/shields/armor and quadrupple the DPS.

Comparing armor and damage types alone isn't enough. All the units don't cost 400/50/25 with 1k hull, 500 shields, and 5 dps.

Killing lrms with flak doesn't leave you with unnessisary useless ships afterwards. It leaves you with ships that are a bitch to kill, and do decent enough damage ( 25% of 20dps is still 5 dps, the same dps a light frig does at 100%).

My point is there is no uber fleet combo. The best fleet/strategy is one that plays to your enemies weaknesses. How you play should depend on what the other person is doing, not what some list on a forum says or what one person used against you one game. That should go without saying, that's how it is in almost everyone RTS game, but nope "omg mass lrms is unstoppables nerf ironclad plz or i uninstalls!111".
Paint_it_Black is the first person to finally get this.
I had hoped people would reply in agreement and shed their insight on the matter, but it took what.. 17 posts for someone that understood how to play to post?


I win games because I constantly scout and see what my enemy is building both building and ship wise, hide my ships, and make what will steamroll him.

Oh and to clearify, by planets I meant PLANETS, not asteroids. I didn't think anyone would confuse that.


Oh and to the people that think I just play against AI, no. I've never played a single single player game or one with AI players online. I've only done multiplayer. I've already given you guys my ICO name.

Yep, this guy has it right. Play some people who know how to do a RA rush and not random first game RA rushers.



I don't need to say anything more to this, innociv. Usually, the first to cry noob or lrn2play is the one that needs the advice...

Okay. Who is an RA rush expert and wants to play then?

PeskyFly,

I have to diagree with your assesment. Firstly, their is only a perceived advantage with regard to the Advent/Vasari vs TEC advanced warships. IMO, the Kol is the best "overall" Cap ship in the game.

1. Kol armor is second only to Vasari Drednaught. With advanced armor research it becomes the most heavily fortified ship in the game.

2. It has a 360 degree firing arc allowing it to literally fly into the center of an enemy battle group and do heavy damage. Throw in a Cielo with DT and Akkan with targeting uplink to properly guide those guns.

3. It is the only Cap ship equipped to deal with Fighters and Bombers via Flak ability.

4. It has an adaptive shield ability which negates Vasari phase missle advantages.

5. It is not overly reliant on antimatter (which can be stolen/destroyed) nor does it rely on shield emitters like the Advent to protect it. Armor is the only thing in this game that cannot be compromised by any ability and the Kol ( and TEC in general)have it in spades.

6. Gotta love the Railgun. Again, employ Akkan and Cielo to direct this weapon to a ships most vulnerable area.

I don't techno-turtle as much as I rapidly improve what smaller forces that I have. If another player chooses to launch a preemptive strike with a mass of LRM's, then they better hope that they take me out otherwise they would have only succeeded in wasting resources that could have been put to better use, ie. linear research and economy building.

I probably have the strongest RA build.

Jinx and I will play you and a teammate of your choice, 2v2, online, tonight. Are you game?

i should be home in an hour from now. I need to find someone who can lay tonight, not a lot of people i know outside the game.

I have someone to play with tomorrow most likely.

If all guns on your flak ships are firing, your opponent isn't microing _at all_. When fighting against flaks, he should not spread out his fleet so that your flaks can shoot from all sides. Furthermore, light frigs are anti heavy. Thus, they deal ~13 dps (in the case of squirmishers, if my memory of their damage is correct). The final nail against flaks vs light frigs is that they can't effectively focus fire. They're just spraying all over the place so it's not super hard to micro units that are low on health and get them to safety.

You must remember this isn't Starcraft as well. Micro isn't as important (though it is useful) and with 100000000000 billion things going on at once, you may not have the time or simply the ability to get to them.