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Mahanon

Join Date 09/2005

Alignment ala GalCiv2

What do people think about incorporating the alignment feature from Galactic Civilizations 2?

For those who aren't familiar with it, each faction would have an alignment, which can be good, neutral, or evil (and points in between). Factions with similar alignments are more likely to be friendly towards you. At certain points in the game, such as when you colonize a planet, you will be prompted to make a decision. For example:

"This new planet has a vast network of underground caverns that we can live in, but unfortunately there is already a primitive race living there"
1. Leave the race alone, we can just live on the surface (no bonus)
2. Let's try to live side-by-side with them (+10 population cap)
3. Kill them all and populate the caverns (+20 population cap)

Obviously, choosing option 1 would move your civilization towards the good side, 2 wouldn't change it, and 3 would move towards evil.

There could also be various unique technologies, ships, or structures available to each alignment.

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I think a problem with this idea, not that its a bad one is: That in SOASE it seams that all three races (TEC, Vasari, Advent) are more in the Grey than the Black or White.

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Mahanon - a good idea - but I do agree with LockEye about these three races being in the grey.

Instead of alignment, maybe add choices, similar to your example, that gives varying bonuses (but could be tied with negative features a la GalCiv II ethical decisions) as this could a good way of specializing a planet, given the bonus incentive to do so...

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But it's not just the three races, it's factions consisting of one of those races. Some factions might choose to try and be morally superior than their race, while others will choose to stoop to new lows to control the galaxy.

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An interesting concept, how about this.

The Ethical system should at least in part be influenced in the real time by actions you make. For instance, in SINS you (should) have the option to colonize a world peacefully and quietly via Colonization ships or through military dominance through nuking. While taking it peacefully costs less but is alot slower being evil and nuking should be faster but costlier. The same dilemma can be found in diplomacy. If a faction attempts to ally you and you say no your are purposefully neglecting to take the path of peace, thus forcing your empire to endure war. This would be evil. Note: actual combat shouldnt be evil, after all you do need to expand sometime. Also, interations with pirates should be neutral and buying from the black market COULD be interpreted as evil.

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Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+369

Yeah, I'm not digging this idea for an RTS. Just because Sins has some likenesses to GC2 doesn't mean it has to emulate it 100%.

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Ashbery76

Join Date 02/2002

+36

I never liked the wishy washy simplistic good or bad stuff in Galciv or the Bioware RPG games.

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never played the game, Galactic Civilizations 2, but the system I don't think will really work in sins,

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"Sir?"
"What? I'm very busy!" *looks at screen*
"Eh, you know that planet we colonized recently?"
"Yes, yes..." *places orders for the fleet*
"Well some some fuzzy animals inhabit it, do you want us to hunt them of, ignore them, or spend lots of credits making sure they are protected?"
"Eh? Oh, sure." *more intensive screen watching*
"Sir?"
"WHAT!"
"You have to choose..."
"GOD DAMMIT! (Expletive)" *Ship on screen explodes*
"Umm... The fuzzy creatures sir?"
"Feed yourself to them."

And that's how Bob, the bad timing adverser, died.

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[off topic]

@Ash - damn brother, your just an all around negative poster. You should consider starting a new thread that goes into detail about what you would do if you were making this game. These one line hit & run posts just dont cut it and are in fact somewhat insulting to the community given you never back them up with anything. Some people here do take this effort seriously and make every attempt to back up their position with more the "like or dislike". Maybe you misunderstand the entire nature of this process.

[off topic]

Anyway, I fully support the notion. In fact I assumed it was one of the secret features they have not told us about yet given the overwhelming support for it within the GS community.

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Personally I do not think it's really apropriate in an RTS - last thing I will worry about is the wellbeing or lack of thereof of some indig critters. With a war on my hands I'll be to busy concentrating on fleet management and squeezing as much resources as I can out of my worlds.

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@Mel - Normally I would concur. However this is a 4X strategy first and foremost as far as I understand the project, hence my assumption and support for the notion.

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The problem is that no race is truly better then the other. I don't know all the lore, but If I had to guess the Advent are probably the most innocent. But then again going on a revenge killing spree is not so nice...

Like I said earlier all three races are really in the grey zone.

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Don't quote me on this, this is a personal opinion. I've always thought of the Advent as the only race in the game with a negative drive for war. Thus, I believe they are the most evil (due to revenge). TEC are under attack and are in defence, and Vasari are on the run. TEC and Vasari are trying to save their species.

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The reason I think the Advent are most innocent is that they were banished because of their belief or use of a drug that gave them abilities.

The Vasari were overlords of a decaying empire. Who willfully attacked the Trader Order for supplies to continue their exodus.

And the TEC were the ones to banish the Advent in the beginning a 1000 odd years ago.

Though this is only my take on the issue, so on some points I could be wrong. But in general all three races are neither good nor evil. Just trying to survive, and continue their way of life.

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Which makes all 3 races equaly life-like. In reality there's no such thing as "good" or "evil" - everything is different shade of gray. However the topic seems to be detiriorating from the original subject, so to put it back on track:

@Mel - Normally I would concur. However this is a 4X strategy first and foremost as far as I understand the project, hence my assumption and support for the notion.

So far for me the game felt more like RTS on a large scale, but it could be due to my playstyle - shoot first and negotiate later.

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The scale of this game is a bit too small for that.

Not to mention that there would have to be another diplomacy module installed that would keep track of alignments that everyone has and make them react differently to other races with different or the same alignment.

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When it comes down to it this game is about 2 things.

1: blowing stuff up in space.

2: heading up a Galactic Civilization from next to nothing.

So with that in mind i think the system makes sense, it would add depth just so long as the buffs you get for being evil/good/in the gray area wouldnt effect combat at all, but rather be more political/economic based. For instance, say you decide to nuke a planet for no aparent reason, your allies would be disgusted at this, and withdraw the alliance, thus you commited an evil act. It doesnt have to be a Good/Evil bar that goes up and down, i just want the actions that you take in the game dont go un-noticed and causes an impact on the rest of the game. In this sense, you could better choose your role in the game (EX: should i be a warlord or an economic mogul ?) In the end its IronClad who decides, so lets wait for them to make the decision.

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Not to mention that there would have to be another diplomacy module installed that would keep track of alignments that everyone has and make them react differently to other races with different or the same alignment.

Diplomacy module?

It's one more integer variable to keep track of for each empire and one more to add/subtract when determining how one empire feels towards another.

Like I said earlier all three races are really in the grey zone.

And like I said earlier,

It's not just the three races, it's factions consisting of one of those races. Some factions might choose to try and be morally superior than their race, while others will choose to stoop to new lows to control the galaxy.

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Depth, immersion, atmosphere and options are the hallmarks of what is universally considered a "classic". Adding any element to a game that enhances either of these areas if properly implemented and does not break the experience or unbalance the general dynamics is always a good thing in my opinion for what its worth.

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That doesnt necessarily mean that Good and Evil have a place in this game.

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So nuking a planet to level entire cities and end almost all aspects of the former civilization does not sound evil to you ?

Oh and a diplomacy module would be awesome. That way the comps wouldnt spam me with silly alliance requests ! still though, IronClad and StarDock should tread lightly here... Perhaps a poll could decide this !

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That doesnt necessarily mean that Good and Evil have a place in this game.

They are relative concepts and not necessary diametrically opposed. Additionally ethos and pathos are major concerns involving anything that in theory relates to life or death.

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Simply put, being good/evil does not make my fleet any better/less of a battle wagon.

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Ashbery76

Join Date 02/2002

+36

The system is flawed because nobody sees there own agenda as evil,be it Ghengis Khan,etc.I think the Sins lore is trying to tell a mature story and cheesy black and white alighments like in GC2 dont belong.

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So nuking a planet to level entire cities and end almost all aspects of the former civilization does not sound evil to you ?

Matters how you look at it.

Is the civilization on the planet itself evil, or maybe a pestilence or a threat to the rest of the galaxy. Wouldnt a good race still try to exterminate it.

Plus then every single action you take would have to be taken into account, meassured, recorded, and then put on a scale which would compare you to the other races. Past that there is the diplomatic implications, bonuses to balance and work, differing tactics, economy module modifications.

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