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Sins is messing up my hard drive! (Issue Resolved)

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DivineWrath
Yarlen
Join Date 01/2005
+369 sdemployee
Reply #26 September 16, 2007 2:59:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

overlord and ET:quake wars use:
..\usergroup|name\my documents\appropriate directory

sins of a solar empire uses:
..\usergroup|name\applications and data\ironclad\...

Neither of these titles is part of the Games for Windows program.  GFW is only starting to hit full speed now. Come the holidays and beyond, most PC games will be in Games for Windows and will be forced to meet the requirements.

If you have Vista (which GFW seems to be designed around) you can find the Save Game location and lots of other info in the Games Explorer.

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DivineWrath
Karmashock
Join Date 11/2006
0
Reply #27 September 16, 2007 3:09:35 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
do know what would be even better? Have an advanced settings tab where it ASKS you where to save saved games, screenshots, and recorded games.


how about that? Say "sure" to whatever MS wants... they want you to put all the saved games on the desktop so it fills the desktop with crap after one play session... FINE... just ask the Player where they want it during install or provide a read out in the game options.


Problem solved. MS can't argue with "that player didn't agree"...
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DivineWrath
eetmorsqrls
Join Date 02/2007
+25
Reply #28 September 16, 2007 3:21:07 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
MS can't argue with "that player didn't agree"...


wanna bet?
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DivineWrath
Karmashock
Join Date 11/2006
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Reply #29 September 16, 2007 3:57:37 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
let me put it this way... "we've made your way the default, but given the player the option to change it"... I don't see them making a fuss about that.
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DivineWrath
eetmorsqrls
Join Date 02/2007
+25
Reply #30 September 16, 2007 4:24:42 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I don't see them making a fuss about that.


let me put it this way... microsoft=satan wearing satin
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DivineWrath
lordkosc
Join Date 12/2006
+6
Reply #31 September 16, 2007 4:28:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ive come acrose alot of ppl who just delete what they installed without using the uninstaller that was with the program/game, so when i see the add/remove programs its full of junk and stuff that cant be removed unless you go into the registry database and delete it manually.


that would be me
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DivineWrath
Multianna
Join Date 10/2006
+10
Reply #32 September 16, 2007 7:37:42 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
LOL
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DivineWrath
Karmashock
Join Date 11/2006
0
Reply #33 September 16, 2007 8:41:48 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
It's honestly how deleting programs should work though.


I'm tired of programs scattering everything all over the computer.

Stay in your damn install directory. Part of the reason why I have to reinstall windows every year or so is because of programs doing that. Ideally, I'd like them to leave the registry alone almost entirely.

Fine put an entry in there for the uninstall app, but otherwise stay in your damn directory. If there is config information that you want to remember... why not have a flipping config file? Is that so damn hard?



I'm sick of it.
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DivineWrath
Multianna
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #34 September 16, 2007 8:54:33 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I'm sick of it.

Unless you make a new and better OS, theres nothing you me or anyone else can do about it.

Better get used to it, as it just get worse...

Well theres always linux if your too tired of M$ stuff
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DivineWrath
Karmashock
Join Date 11/2006
0
Reply #35 September 17, 2007 2:27:02 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
It's not actually the OS's fault. There is nothing that forces the programmers to put data outside of the install directory


Yes, a programmer could create a THOUSAND folders on your linux machine if you oked the installation.


it's the same thing. Info that really should just be in one place is scattered all over the damn place for no reason. The only reason I can think to put stuff in a different folder is for different users.


So fine... do that... then especially with saved games that's what the documents folder is for. Put it there.
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DivineWrath
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
+50
Reply #36 September 17, 2007 10:54:26 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

So fine... do that... then especially with saved games that's what the documents folder is for. Put it there.


Eh, my understanding is that they're changing things for Vista... but require you to follow the same rules for Vista and XP. Bad idea, that
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DivineWrath
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
+458 sdemployee
Reply #37 September 17, 2007 1:08:31 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
It's not actually the OS's fault. There is nothing that forces the programmers to put data outside of the install directory


Except that Microsoft expects it to be done that way. Personally I prefer the old 'gobs of .ini files' way of saving settings versus the registry. Much easier to clean and maintain that way.

I seem to recall that OS X keeps all the stuff from programs in their location, so one delete nukes all traces. If that's true, that's one thing that could be learned from...
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DivineWrath
Vandenburg
Join Date 04/2006
+43
Reply #38 September 17, 2007 1:13:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Except that Microsoft expects it to be done that way.


Did somebody already suggest that Microsoft is the devils incarnation? If not, now I did it.

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DivineWrath
The Wicked Flea
Join Date 01/2005
+2
Reply #39 September 17, 2007 1:25:29 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Honestly, I don't mind where the files are put, so long as I can get at them. And no this doesn't contradict what I said earlier. I can't get at files in my Application Data directory because something concerned with DRM causes explorer (the process) to crash each and every time I linger in that directory for longer than a few seconds. So, I go to grab screenshots from SupCom and *BOOOOOM* my computer crashes.

Gee, that's a lot of fun! Let's do it again!

PLEASE unless you are required to FORCE a user to save everything to the App Data directory, place an "Override Save Directory" option in your options page! Otherwise, I say GFW can go somewhere very, very hot. These software things are for the user's convenience ... not the owner of the OS. I refuse, flat out refuse, to upgrade to Vista ever because of retarded things like this. Please stop catering to Microsoft and start catering to the users.

Or provide a stealth patch that provides the same thing we want. I do want to access my screenshots, replays, and save games without crashing.
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DivineWrath
ta_erog
Join Date 08/2002
0
Reply #40 September 17, 2007 2:32:41 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Um, I think people are missing the point.

First if you are running out of room on your boot slice/partition. . it is your fault and you should fix it. It is quite easy to set up the OS to keep installed programs and user accounts on another file system, if this is a problem.
Also if you have OS, problems . . well you have problems . . it has little to do with the game.

Second the User directories (including my documents) are where user specific information goes as defined by the OS . .
These user directories can be placed on a different partition, drive, or even remotely (on a server). This allows easy backup and restore of user information - even shifting accounts from system to system.
This model closely resembles a Unix/Linux “home” directory and not some “new and evil M$ has concocted”. So the complaints are laughable.
The fact that they are mimicking a Unix convention and making it easier for users to keep there own data in one location and easily backed up is a GOOD thing! (Now that the computer is a center for home use and now has a greater chance of Multiple users and logins this is important!),
It amazes me that the knee-jerk reaction of ANYTHNING Microsoft does is construed as “bad” and even given a strange uncalled for religious label of “evil”. Lame and short sited people that knowingly complain about things they do not understand to the extent of being hypocritical. I use 2-3 different OS's each day (have used - well all to many), all have there strengths and weaknesses . . none of them are "Good OR Evil".

Home/user directories are a GOOD thing, Complaint about them (I have not seen any of any argument on why there are not good) seems to be entirely uninformed.
Whether or not a game uses this convention is really up to the game, they can either make there own accounts for settings and locations for saved files or use that same feature set that is now built into the OS. They could even do both and allow multiple accounts per game, per user . .How is this a bad thing?

BUT if they keep the user specific files IN the game directory then they could be easily lost and backups insanely large. Not the best way to do things . .
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DivineWrath
The Wicked Flea
Join Date 01/2005
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Reply #41 September 17, 2007 2:46:26 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
ta_erog: you are missing my point. This "special" directory resides in this folder, on XP: C:\Documents and Settings\(user)\Local Settings\Application Data

The last two are hidden folders. Yes, you hide the very data you want accessible within a hidden system folder. This isn't the "My Documents" directory you seem to think it is; half the time my explorer session crashes when I hit the Local Settings\ Application Data after staying somewhere within for about 2 minutes.

"Uninformed?" I am a programmer, poweruser, and semi-experienced Linux novice. All this is from direct experience and not being "informed" by someone. Reread my reply above you without "Microsoft Basher" in your mind and you may, just may, find me to be both coherent and backed by good reason.

And if you say these directories can be relocated, I expect proof of concept and a tutorial on how. Back up your statements.
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DivineWrath
Stratteggi
Join Date 01/2007
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Reply #42 September 17, 2007 3:29:57 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Flea, you're looking at the wrong Application Data folder. There is another one, not in the Local Settings folder, meaning it's not hidden. This is where the Sins files are kept: "C:\Documents and Settings\(user)\Application Data"
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DivineWrath
The Wicked Flea
Join Date 01/2005
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Reply #43 September 17, 2007 4:04:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Mmmm, no, that one is hidden too. Want a screenshot? And, that one is where SecuROM and all the other DRM packages hide their stuff. GPG goes into local settings for its files and it is GFW certified; CnC 3 goes to just App Data. I don't know which is right, but both are a bad choice for placing user accessible files. And yeah, I have all hidden files visible on my PC; I don't care what MS or XP says.
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DivineWrath
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #44 September 17, 2007 4:24:47 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Mmmm, no, that one is hidden too. Want a screenshot? And, that one is where SecuROM and all the other DRM packages hide their stuff.


That's odd. For me the Docs and Settings\[user]\App Data folder is not hidden, though the SecuROM folder in it is (Bioshock demo, ugh).
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DivineWrath
Yarlen
Join Date 01/2005
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Reply #45 September 17, 2007 4:50:54 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Guys, as I've said, the location for where games can store data is set by Microsoft. We cannot alter it or workaround it in any way and pass their certification. As I said, if you don't like it, you really need to take your complaints to Microsoft. There's is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
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DivineWrath
The Wicked Flea
Join Date 01/2005
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Reply #46 September 17, 2007 5:08:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
There's is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

At least so long as you want a GFW certification you can't. It also means you have to use MicroSoft's half-baked version of Installer 3.0 -- the one that requires you keep source files for all eternity or else there's no uninstall for you. (At least not the easy way....)
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DivineWrath
ta_erog
Join Date 08/2002
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Reply #47 September 17, 2007 6:41:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
If that was your point . . it was not expressed well . . or was lost in the thread.
First . . That IS a problem for people those that are not very computer literate. Since this is the default with XP it will confuse people that only understand browsing with the UI and do not know how to change the explorer settings (most power users change this default just after install or set it up with the OEM “scripts”). But, MS can not change a past default easily and XP is going EOLed so there is little need to “fix” this. So while this may be a gaf it will be a short lived one. In the computer software world this is rather minor. . . but possibly annoying.
IF your explorer is crashing your system has problems. .BIG problems that are not relevant in this discussion, and if you take no attempt to fix it . . well I will not comment on that.

"Uninformed?" well, if you do not know how to unhide directories, fix your failing system, or know how to change the default directories . .you are a windows Novice . .and being such not qualified to make such harsh statements on an OS you dot know more about.

Back up my statements A applaud your request of proof, it shows critical thinking .. . but have to laugh at your brashness . . you could have kept from looking a bit foolish by doing the simplest internet search . .

There are many ways of doing this . .in fact you can force the OS installer to make the changes default.

The “network” way of handling this is
“Roaming User Profile” I know you are a novice if you do not know what this means. There are a host of ways to set this up and I WILL NOT give a tutorial . . Read a book
“Folder Redirection” using IntelliMirror . . can be combined with roaming.

Here are a few reg entries . .there are more
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\DocFolderPaths
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders

read
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q236621/
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555308/en-us

Also allot of “tweek” programs help allot if you do not what to do this manually . . .

Also I tend to move the “Programs” directory. (because till the “rule” takes hold some programs keep user data in the install dir.)
This makes imaging the boot partition easy and allows a corrupted partition/drive to be replaced with out loss of data.

With Vista you have additional possiblies . .

So, Ahem . . . my statement stands

One of the reasons MS has made more strict rules on using the user dirs, is because poorly written programs and widely diverging ideas of where the data should go has made problems in the earlier OS’s. Is there implementation correct? The best way? Not known yet since few have vista and few are writing for the new specs yet . .time will tell.

I would suggest that you fix your explorer problem and make a short cut there (this may not be bad advice Yarlen for stardoc . . put a shortcut in the menu to the screenshot dir to save on tech calls)

(ps. I am working of a Sun blade 2000 running Solaris 10 . . and a genaric xeon based PC at this moment in time - so hold no OS pregidous, I have been in the computer industry for over 15 years - ug way over . . though definitely not infallible, I think I may know something about these things )
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DivineWrath
Karmashock
Join Date 11/2006
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Reply #48 September 17, 2007 7:08:29 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
MS's marketing lately has been very poor... just looking at vista's sales should make it very clear they don't understand their consumer base... especially considering how "surprised" they were that we wouldn't eat mouth full crap.. chew and swallow.


Vista is slowly but surely being taken apart and hacked. After a year or so more of that all the DRM and spyware will be disabled.


Yarlen, You can provide an option in an ini file that lets you specify a different save location. Please do at least that for us. Default would be %userdata%\%username%\Applicaiton Data\Ironclad


Which I could reset to F:\Ironclad\Saved Games


My F drive is exclusively for games... It's a raptor...
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DivineWrath
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #49 September 17, 2007 11:46:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Vista is slowly but surely being taken apart and hacked. After a year or so more of that all the DRM and spyware will be disabled.


Lets just hope microsoft gets the message and doesn't bother with it anymore. I really don't want to take the time to track that stuff down.
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DivineWrath
Karmashock
Join Date 11/2006
0
Reply #50 September 18, 2007 4:07:59 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
It's getting picked apart... all the little hidden traps and secrets are getting dug up and either harnessed, hacked, or disabled...
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