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Firelance2005
Firelance2005
Join Date 02/2008
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Vasari vs LRM

how to counter early attacks?

February 11, 2008 1:12:02 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I seem to have problems countering early TEC LRM attacks. This doesent happen late game. But in the begining they seem very hard to counter as vasari.

TEC gets LRM after only 2 military research centers. At that point vasary have only the Skirmisher and the Assailant available, and bouth seem weak against LRMs.

I took a look at the stats of the units and (if i read them corectly) i think i know why the LRMs are so powerfull.
The LRM has an anti medium attack wich does to medium armor (Skirmisher) +50% damage and to Light (Assailant) normal damage.
On the other hand the Skirmisher has an anti heavy attack and the Assailant has an anti capital attack witch bouth do -25% damage to Light (LRM) armor.

So is there any counter to them as vasari except going fast carriers, witch is kinda expensive to get so early (3 military research buildings) and can be counterd by a few anti fighter frigats.
strategy
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Firelance2005
Wraith35
Join Date 07/2007
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Reply #1 February 11, 2008 1:16:56 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Vasari seem to be weaker early, but super strong late game... not sure of an early counter aside from turtle a bit and research.
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Firelance2005
archpsi
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 February 11, 2008 1:52:57 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
ye vasari are much weaker in early game than their counterparts (matters which map, on maps with many capture able resources not so much, but on maps with none they have a disadvantage), but once they have a few phase stabilizers up and dark armada (can be done within an hour or so, with only 4-5 planets) they start to really shine.
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Firelance2005
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #3 February 11, 2008 2:30:28 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Carriers work best to counter, but there are other ways. I don't remember them off the top of my head (not a Vasari player) but I'd try the "cure-all" of playing more aggressively with your capitol ships, since LRMs aren't so hot against those. (The dreadnought has an AoE ability thats particularly helpful).
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Firelance2005
Firelance2005
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #4 February 11, 2008 2:33:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Well turtleing is not realy an option because LRMs can outrange defences.
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Firelance2005
archpsi
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #5 February 11, 2008 4:03:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
assailant has the same damage type and armour as the LRM.
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Firelance2005
Wraith35
Join Date 07/2007
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Reply #6 February 11, 2008 4:04:30 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
To Be honest I play very aggressive with Vasari. I like to produce the 1st Capital ship on the list right away and take 3 skirmishers and start going planet hunting from the outset. That ship is insane once it gets stronger! Then I focus on missile and phase research as well as getting empire research and such up and going. the missiles are great if any of those shield huggers come sticking their noses around. If you can manage to build a carrier and start upgrading it's healing aura as well it is quite a nice combo. The bombers will eat up the LRM's ..I've heard fighters will as well.
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Firelance2005
JamesJB
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #7 February 11, 2008 4:17:57 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Hi not to sound dumb or a Newb but what does turtleing mean? Slowly building up?
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Firelance2005
Dunroth
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #8 February 11, 2008 4:25:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Turtling is when you mass defenses and basically barricade yourself on your own worlds.
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Firelance2005
Cogitate
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #9 February 11, 2008 6:37:34 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I think you looked at the wrong file. The Advent LRM is the one that has the CapitalShip attack type(and consequently 25-45% more base damage than the other two faction's LRM).

Pound for pound, the Vasari LRM SHOULD beat the TEC LRM every single time.
The Vasari LRM costs more supplies and resources, but has much better hulls, shielding, armor, and damage. The only thing its worse at is range.
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Firelance2005
Schod
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #10 February 11, 2008 6:40:56 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
aha, the advent have LRLs, not LRMs!
petty pointmongering aside: advent illuminators are MAD powerful, not to mention they can shoot numerous targets at once (making them damn well near indomnimtable when you surround your enemy with a lot of them)
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Firelance2005
PeskyFly
Join Date 08/2007
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Reply #11 February 12, 2008 7:07:33 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

aha, the advent have LRLs, not LRMs!
petty pointmongering aside: advent illuminators are MAD powerful, not to mention they can shoot numerous targets at once (making them damn well near indomitable when you surround your enemy with a lot of them)


Aren't the Advent Illuminators' tri-beam lasers matched by the Vasari Assailants' area-effect shield-piercing missiles? With a better-optimized attack type(AntiVeryHeavy for the Assailant vs. AntiCapital for the Illuminators) and(comparatively) much stronger armoring and hull strength, the Assailant should be able to knock out the Illuminator blow-for-blow as well.
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Firelance2005
Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #12 February 12, 2008 7:32:15 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Assailants should work vs LRMs quite nicely. Their damage is easier to upgrade as the first round is tier 1 so won't cost you so much crystal when compared to LRMs first damage upgrade! However the skirmisher doesn't fare well at all D:
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Firelance2005
Shadow_of_Light
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #13 February 12, 2008 7:39:39 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

aha, the advent have LRLs, not LRMs!
petty pointmongering aside: advent illuminators are MAD powerful, not to mention they can shoot numerous targets at once (making them damn well near indomitable when you surround your enemy with a lot of them)


Aren't the Advent Illuminators' tri-beam lasers matched by the Vasari Assailants' area-effect shield-piercing missiles? With a better-optimized attack type(AntiVeryHeavy for the Assailant vs. AntiCapital for the Illuminators) and(comparatively) much stronger armoring and hull strength, the Assailant should be able to knock out the Illuminator blow-for-blow as well.


the advent illuminator have 3 batteries

on in the front
the right, and left

the front obviously" shoots the primary target
while shooting the prim target the left and right beams dont do anything but wait for something to get into range
illuminators are so "godlike" since while retreating 2 / 1 batteries are stil pounding the enemy
1 on 1 vs vasari assailant the illuminator doesnt stand a chance
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Firelance2005
Vasot
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #14 February 12, 2008 7:50:49 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Indeed
Vasari latest technology makes the STRONGEST MILITARY FORCE (If you succeed advancing that far)

Turtling is when you mass defenses and basically barricade yourself on your own worlds.


You do not stand a chance of surviving for long with this kind of defensive strategy in a game like SINS (maybe in some other game but not in Sins)

SINS is about Expand
If you are playing very defensive you are doomed to be overwhelmed and lose from your opponent
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Firelance2005
innociv
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #15 February 12, 2008 11:26:34 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I like the illuminator's more than assailants... Maybe it's because i have gaurdians, bombers, and mothership to heal them with them. ;/
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Firelance2005
PeskyFly
Join Date 08/2007
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Reply #16 February 12, 2008 11:50:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I like the illuminator's more than assailants... Maybe it's because i have gaurdians, bombers, and mothership to heal them with them. ;/


So, the Vasari have Subverters which would disable the Guardians and Antorak Marauders to Phase Out the Progenitor. And Vasari cap-carrier bombers with their abilities would be deploying bomber squads every bit as powerful as the Advent.
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