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Join Date 01/2004

"friday five" ... who are YOU ?

... safe harbour for the big issues

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(the following issues inspire such debate and stir such emotion that it's almost impossible not to give them at least some consideration. so, in the "safe harbour" of friday five, i thought we could share our opinions on the current "big issues". hopefully we may end up with a general "consensus" or majority view in some very interesting areas).

... do you approve or disapprove of ...

1/ prostitution ?

2/ drugs ?

3/ pornography ?

4/ censorship ?

5/ pre-marital sex ?

(note: as usual, please give your reasons if you are willing, and skip or alter any question as you choose, as they're only guidelines. everybody is welcome to participate ... and yes, i did avoid politics and religion (amongst others) on purpose. i may be curious, but there are places even i'm too scared to go

)

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1/ prostitution ?
I disapprove of illegal activities. So in places where prostitution is illegal, I say no. However, I have seen girls in bars hand out sex to complete strangers for free... so if a girl is willing to do that and make a buck too, I don't have a problem with it. It is still consensual sex.

2/ drugs ?
See above on illegal activities. I do not like drugs. I do not like things that alter my mind or inhibit my thinking. But I am not about to impose my personal decision about drugs on others.

3/ pornography ?
I got no problem with this, as long as it is used responsibly.

4/ censorship ?
I disapprove of censorship, but I think there are places and times for certain things. I wouldn't want a two-year-old exposed to pron or graphic violence.

5/ pre-marital sex ?
Since I'm not married, I'm all for that! But again, responsibility is needed.

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1/ prostitution ? Morally I am opposed, but I don't see that illegalizing prostitution has done any good whatsoever (I have seen areas of legalized prostitution, and find them incredibly well managed, and am, most of all, pleasantly surprised by the absence of "streetwalkers" in the area, as it's confined to brothels

2/ drugs ? I do not choose to use (most) drugs, but believe God put every herb here for our use (read: not abuse), and do not find the proper use of drugs (and even the responsible recreational use) to be offensive.

3/ pornography ? I don't indulge, but am a staunch Bill of Rights advocate. I think that children, though, should be protected from pornography.

4/ censorship ? absolutely opposed to this one, except as applies to children.

5/ pre-marital sex ? Morally opposed.

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The friday 5 are early today Mig.

1/ prostitution ?
*sigh* I can never understand how a woman can get to a place that makes this an okay thing to do for money. Sex shouldn't be about money or power or status or to have children. It should be about love - it should be expression of two people who genuinely care about one another

2/ drugs ?
I guess this is one way women get themselves into a place that makes prostitution right for them. Drugs do bad things to people and to the people that love them.

3/ pornography ?
I think it's 2 steps away from Prostitution. There's nothing wrong with a husband taking pictures of his naked wife boyfriend/girlfriend boyfriend/boyfriend girlfriend/girlfriend -- in the privacy of their home for their personal use - but once it gets out to the workplace onto the internet, magazines, Children!!! -- yeah no.

4/ censorship ?
I think we need censors. 9 months ago I made a decision that my child would only watch taped television shows with no ads and only shows like hi-5 and playschool because I found some of the things in primetime slots viewed by children was just inappropriate - and I can't think of an example atm.

5/ pre-marital sex ?
I think people are going to have sex. More and more people are opting not to marry. I think as I said in Q1 that sex should be about love - so I don't agree with one-night stands or sex on the first date etc... I can't articulate it but yeah - I don't think you have to be married to have sex and if you're going to GET married and you have sex I don't necessarily think thats bad either- i think the commitment is the key. Whether its by marriage or just being with the one person for 2-5-30 years - Sex should be about Love, friendship, commitment,
yeah

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hi cs guy, gideon and trina !.

yes trina, i am early. i got scared last night 'cause i couldn't think of anything, so i got up early ! heh ! can you believe it ! what a dag !

just for this firday five, i have decided to "stay out" of the comments for the most part, although i'm going to do my own answers to this one tonight.

i'm planing to keep a general "running" tally to see what we as a group end up with as a majority in every area, rather than pick out individual answers which in this case may be a bit confronting. as we go, (oooh, i hope more people answer me !), i'll do an update on the "scores" for each issue. hope this is ok ?

i've been dying to do this one, and thanks to your brave people for starting off

mig XX

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I think we need censors. 9 months ago I made a decision that my child would only watch taped television shows with no ads and only shows like hi-5 and playschool because I found some of the things in primetime slots viewed by children was just inappropriate - and I can't think of an example atm.

I believe WE should be the censors, not put the burden on someone else (especially as their values don't like up with mine). Our family uses our TV solely for movies and video games...there's no antenna even hooked up.

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1/ prostitution ? until it infringes on another rights, have at it.

2/ drugs ? until it infringes on another rights, have at it.

3/ pornography ? until it infringes on another rights, have at it.

4/ censorship ? at home only. ever.

5/ pre-marital sex ? yes

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ok, grey....I'm a-gonna hafta get my libertarian conversion kit out on you (ya know, Badnarik DID score pretty high on your presidential pick list!)

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I just re-read my answer after reading Gideon's and as a Christian - I don't look like a very good one

To me - the Bible says Love one another, whatever you do to your brother you do to me, treat others how you yourself want to be treated and judge not least you be judged.

So I can't say that any of these things are morally wrong because then I am passing judgement where God should be the one who judges. If I disagreed with premarital sex then I'd be a hypocrit - do the math I'm celebrating my wedding anniversary on Monday (the first one) and Elana is 7months old. That said I stand by my sex for love commitment thing - I didn't just have sex once fall pregnant and then decided to get married. We were engaged for 3 months before falling pregnant - we just decided to move the wedding up. Look its a complex story. But I don't think we can say things are morally wrong. Because God judges - we can hold personal opinions

Which is what this friday 5 is -- and personally I liked you commentting on everyones comments -- feedback good or bad is interesting and whether you agree or disagree or have extra questions its all interesting and most of us are civilised people who are capable of agreeing to disagree and respecting each others views without throwing a tanty,
Love you Mig!

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!WARNING! : I just got up! So I sleep til noon so what!
!!WARNING!! : My attempt to be funny means nothing I will place the seriousness thing below them
1/ prostitution ? Well now that I think about it, isnt that basically like the neighborgood girl asking for 3 dollars for a pack of smokes? Oh dont you deny it every one KNOWS about the neighborhood whore they just dont say nothing. We all had then. Where you think the term village bike came from heheh

Brothels are fine by me, as long as they are well kept, desease is almost none present and there is sufficent testing medically wise have at it.

2/ drugs ? Pot can make world peace But you would have to have a very very big doobie.

Drugs such as pot are fine by me, other drugs that are used in pure forms and subsequently abused should not be legal and should not be in the public arena. These are known as Hard Drugs. If people used pot in recrational purposes only and just to get stoned a few times I have no problem with it, I quite enjoyed my high times I did a lot of fun stuff that I can still laugh at now and be completely sober about

3/ pornography ? I dont have much of it nor have I ever really been a particular fan of it. Maybe both influence each other

Keep it from children. Period.

4/ censorship ? NO

NO!!!!!!!!!

5/ pre-marital sex ? Yes Please.

I have no problems with P-M S as long as it is consensual and love is indeed involved.

Thomas

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i feel like i'm only going to be repeating what others have already said but hey...

1/ prostitution ? i had to re-read the question; whether it was "do you think these should be legal" is very different to whether i as an individual approve or disapprove. prostitution for example -- or most of these things on the list i don't have a problem with them being legal (as long as there are restrictions on them), even though i don't approve of them. likewise there are many things that are legal that i am fine with them being legal but don't necessarily approve of (eg. drinking to excess, picking your nose in public

)
so prostitution: definitely don't approve of women selling their bodies for sex, or indeed giving it away for free as cs guy referred to.

2/ drugs ? don't approve of any form of substance abuse and i think substances that are going to alter your mind are dangerous. i think that reasoning can apply to lots of legal and prescription substances as well as "illicit" substances. we can be quick to slam heroin or whatever on face value yet think little of administering morphine to a patient in severe pain.... i know there are differences, but they both have good and bad effects. likewise even seemingly harmless drugs like caffiene can have negative effects long term.

3/ pornography ? similar to trina, in some ways what people do behind closed doors (this should be tempered with my reply to pre-marital sex though) is their own business. selling pornography.... well i don't approve. not just for the reason of kids seeing it and stuff, i think sex and all that goes with it should be confined to monogamous marriage relationships

4/ censorship ? its necessary for a number of reasons but can be dangerous if the power to censor is too strong. in short, i approve, but censors need to be accountable. i also think people have a responsibility to self-censor.

5/ pre-marital sex ? disapprove. i believe God intended sex exclusively for marriage, although i don't think that's necessarily a western perspective of white-dress-wedding-ring marriage. i do think there should be an affirmed lifelong commitment though.

Teegstar

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hi graywar, teegs and thomas. welcome to friday five

. i was expecting to obtain some very standard results here, ie: the typical "women hate prostituition and porn", etc etc. it's actually not working out that way which is GREAT !!!!.

teegs, i know it can feel like you're repeating what others have said, but i guess that will tend to happen with such subjects as this, and i did enjoy having your answers, your perpective is still unique

the answers are are getting here are a such a mix of moral and personal viewpoints that i've found myself wishing i did this one earlier, they're so fascinating.

and i was wondering if anybody has read somebody else's answers and gained a new insight in any way ?

thanks you guys. time for a "for and against" count soon. woo hoo !

vanessa/mig XX

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1/ prostitution ?

Ugly dudes need sex too. I just wish it was in a safe environment... Prostitution is an easy way for junkies to make bling though... regulated prostitution... that will be the day.

2/ drugs ?

ME using drugs... yeah, I am fine with that... anyone else, I dont approve of that. The reasoning behind this - I trust myself, know my limits. Drug dealers are also bad... so if it was only me lining their pockets... hmmph...

3/ pornography ?

Never been a fan fo porno... I dunno... nothing beats the imagination... except the real thing of course

If it floats your boat, thats cool, I just possibly maybe think you need to get laid more

4/ censorship ?

No, no way. People should be able to make up their own minds. regulating what we do and dont see reaks of fundamental conformity

5/ pre-marital sex ?

pfft... I dont even beleive in the institution of marraige!

BAM!!!

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1/ Prostitution A tricky one. I believe that if someone (I love how everyone assumes it's a woman. Not always people. Wake up!) wants to make their money this way, more power to them. It doesn't effect me, I don't have to do it and it serves a purpose in society. Having said that, prostitutes have the highest murder rate of all occupations. But this doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with prositution - just the society in which it is based. I'm for it (as long as the people involved are of legal age and are fully consenting)

2/Drugs I am an occasional drug user - nothing hardcore, just a little bit of party enhancement, so I have to say that I am not opposed to drugs. But in my mind I have this very firm line drawn between most drugs and heroin. I've seen my best friend go through the tail end of a heroin addiction (that's when I met her) and while she pulled herself out of it, many of the people she knew through the drug are now dead or may as well be. So can I say I agree with tolerance for everything but that?

3/ Pornography All for it. The more the better. But only if you choose to watch it, of course. And it can't have anything to do with children. The violent pornos disturb me a lot too, but are they any different to violent films? Hmmm - good questions mig, there are so many grey areas!

4/ Censorship On the whole, I'm against censorship. As others have said, it should be in your control what you choose to see, but then there are some things which no one should have access to (snuff films etc )

5/ Pre-marital sex 100% wholly for this one. Definitely. And more of it (for me, anyway!)

I think I have talked around in circles on this one. Good questions (as always!)

Suz xxx

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1/ prostitution ? My view point on this, as it is with many things is, i wouldn't do it myself, but I don't really have a problem with anyone else doing it. Who am I to judge their way of life? They make their own decisions and live by the consequences, as long as it is done in a safe enviroment, I don't have a problem. I wouldn't do it personally because I would feel cheap and used, but that's just me.

2/ drugs ? I hate drugs with a passion, I really do and for reasons most of you are already aware of. Having said that my opinion is the same as above, if you want to do it, do it, and live with whatever life that brings you. For many people it doesn't ruin their life it's just an occasional buzz now and then, and I don't have a problem, but I would never do it.

3/ pornography ?

...no problem at all with this one, everyone needs a bit of fun don't they hehe!

4/ censorship ? In theory I don't believe in censorship. However in reality sometimes it is needed, there is a time and a place for everything and this must be respected.

5/ pre-marital sex ? Ahhh this is a tough one, I used to think I didn't believe in sex before marriage, but I don't believe in marriage really either, so that leaves me with a whole problem. I believe sex is viewed far to lightly, I want to be in love with someone, and keep it the special act it is. That's just me though. I think people need a bit of variety before they settle down with somone.

Wicked questions Mig as usual

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thanks muggy, suz, and sal for adding your replies. it's funny, i'm usully trying frantically to think of a questions around now, i was super early today.

.

i always get a surprise at how open all the minds are on here, and this week is no exception. i am yet to see an unbalanced view. it's very encouraging

i'm working out the best way to present these as "stats" without sounding weird hehe, but i think there are going to be some surprising numbers by the time i'm done.

thanks everyone for contributing.

vanessa/mig

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Questions 1 to 3: All should be legal and heavily regulated.

Prostitution - to protect the rights and safety of the women who work in the profession, and to disintangle the sex industry from the modern slave trade economy.

Drugs - so what is basically a medical issue isn't clouded with issues of criminality. There are too many, basically decent, people taking up resourses and wasting lives in prisons, prisons that should be protecting the community against violence, not recreational, individual drug use. If you want to eliminate drug dealers and their culture of violence, then let the government be the dealer, let it dampen the economic and sociological impact that hard drugs have.

Pornography - read reasons for prostitution. There should also be more done to regulate the content of pornography rather than just its movement and production. It should show us what sex could be like rather than what it shouldn't be like.

Censorship? I generally disapprove of censorship of any kind, but i can vaguely imagine situations where it could be necessary, but i think that general "market forces" do a pretty apt job at maintaining an implicit level of acceptability.

Pre-marital sex - I don't really approve of marriage, so this one should be easy - yes, yes and YES. Remember pre-marital sex isn't always synonymous with irresponsible sex.

Marco

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1) prostitution's supposed to be the oldest profession right? So I think its okay as long as the girls are looked after..The more people repress sex in society the more its gonna come out as rape and shit like that.,

2)Drugs. if you legalise them at least it takes out the risky black market side where your dealer can pound you senseless if you don't wanna pay anymore. Plus I think people should be able to do whatever they want to their own bodies. Most drugs have been around way longer than the laws against them. I can understand why they would be illegal but evidently making them illegal doesn't stop people from doing them. So if they were legal maybe they could be used in a safer way...Like those clinics that give out clean needles etc but to a greater extent.

3)pornography- I guess they should just be careful of the content I suppose.

4) Censorship- No. it's weird what they censor and what they don't. I remember they showed this guy jumping out a window and cracking his head open on the poolside over and over again but they blur out knives on The Osbournes or sex. I don't think people know what's acceptable anymore. I know you need to be careful with kids and everything but censorship in general is just screwed up. They need to either figure out the right shit to censor (and maybe i'm just talking about america here) and what not to. I appreciate thats tough, and I don't have the answer cuz what i deem acceptable may well not be to other people.

5)Pre-marital sex- yes please.

DYl xxx

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1/ prostitution ?

Disapprove. Sex shouldn't be about money....and it should mean more than just the physical act. It's about love, commitment, intimacy....and I can't believe you get any of that with a prostitute.

2/ drugs ?

Disapprove. Too many potential dangers, not only to the person taking them, but to people around that person..such as the 4 month old in my area who died yesterday because Mom was on a heroin/crack binge and FELL ASLEEP after putting him in the bathtub.

3/ pornography ?

I don't like it, but I don't care if others feel the need for it. Just don't have it blatantly displayed where my children are going to see it, or I'm going to get radical.

4/ censorship ?

Disapprove. It's too subjective....everyone's opinion of what should and shouldn't be censored is going to vary. Learn to provide censorship for yourself instead of expecting the government or whoever to do it for you. Don't like a TV show? Turn it off. Don't like the lyrics to a song? Don't listen to it. Don't approve of a movie? Don't watch it. NOT a difficult concept, IMO.

5/ pre-marital sex ?

Disapprove for anyone under 18....after that, you're an adult, and it's up to you to decide whether to do it or not.

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See, this is what I was talking about. You can provide censorship for your child on your own, allowing viewing of only those things you feel are appropriate in your home....but that doesnt mean you have to insist that NO ONE should see anything but what you find appropriate.

I believe WE should be the censors, not put the burden on someone else (especially as their values don't like up with mine).

EXACTLY what I was saying!

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1/ Prostitution: I think it's a poor way for a woman to make money, and I would rather there were no need for it, so in that sense I disapprove. However I am with Greywar and the other libertarian-minded individuals that it should be legal, and regulated. If people are going to do it anyway (and they are) and it is not necessarily a harmful act, then criminalizing it is counterproductive.

2/ Drugs: I'm not interested in them myself, I like my mind the way it is already and feel no need to alter it significantly. However, the relatively arbitrary distinction between currently legal and illegal drugs is pointless and stupid; fighting a "War on Drugs" is a complete waste of effort; and sending millions of people to jail just for using drugs when they could be contributing members of society is a huge squandering of resources. Now you're making ME pay for their drug habit, in the form of taxes for judges, juries, and prisons.

3/ Pornography: This is already legal and I see no need to change that. I'm relatively neutral on the matter; as long as the women are not being exploited I have no issue with it.

4/ Censorship: Censoring is for parents and legal guardians to practice on their children/charges, not for government. I am all in favor of being a responsible parent and all against trying to make the government into a surrogate parent for the entire country.

5/ pre-marital sex: If you're comfortable with it, go right ahead. If your religious beliefs advocate against it, then you should hold off.

I'm glad to see nobody yet has said Yes to Prostitution and No to Pre-marital sex.

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(I love how everyone assumes it's a woman. Not always people. Wake up!)

I don't assume all prositutes are female... it's just that i dont care about the others

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I'd be willing to bet that 98% or more of prostitutes are female.

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1/ prostitution ?I disapprove. I feel that sex is sacred. Prostitution just cheapens the whole thing.
2/ drugs ?
I disapprove in the adiction to drugs. Pharmacetical or otherwise. Or in the addiction to anything, really
3/ pornography ?
I believe that pornography is a lot like prostitution. Women are selling sex.
4/ censorship ?
What kind of censorship? Where children are involved, yes definitely.
5/ pre-marital sex ?
This one is hard for me to answer. I tried to remain a virgin till marriage, but I was raped. I threw my belief away because I thought I was “ruined” in a respect. Now, I go back and forth. I am so confused by this one! Can anyone say, “Wishy-washy”!

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Now, should these be legal?

1/ prostitution ? no
2/ drugs ? yes
3/ pornography ? no
4/ censorship ? no
5/ pre-marital sex ? How in the world could someone make this illegal?

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1/ prostitution ? Disapprove, but hey, I suppose how you earn and spend money is your choice.

2/ drugs ? Disapprove of mind-altering drugs, but if you truly know your limits on the more recreational, less mind-altering, harmful drugs, the go for it.

3/ pornography ? Disapprove personally, but don't think it should be illegalized as long as it doesn't involve children.

4/ censorship ? Disapprove, except for reasons with children... but then again, I think most of the time the parents should be the ones monitering what their children see and hear.

5/ pre-marital sex ? I personally disapprove, but don't think it should be illegal. How the hell would you moniter that?

~Sarah

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