Newbie Questions! » Forum Post by Palidos

1) Is it just me, or are vasari capital ships kind of dumb/weak comparatively? And beyong that, them in general..I love the idea of teleporting around and being extremely offensive.. but their ships seem so weak for their cost, and their econ doesnt really shine in any way...? (other than, i guess, deleting my own ships for less resources?)

Two words: Jerrasul Evacuator. Arguably the best capital ship in the game, and it's Vasari. Skirantra carrier with repair cloud is a good mid-late game capital ship, too. That said, the Kortul class capital ship was greatly improved in the most recent patch update.

Beyond that, Vasari actually do have a pretty good economy. Their scouts can capture and hold neutral extractors much earlier and more effectively than the weak, slow, and expensive colony frigates of the other factions. The four lab trade port research isn't as much of a disadvantage as it may appear. Yes, you cannot go "fast trade" as Vasari, but once you start getting more experienced you'll find there are so many viable (and most often superior) alternatives to trade ports in the early game that this doesn't count for a lot.

As for the units being slightly weaker for cost, this is true. This is the downside of playing Vasari. They are not a brute force faction.

2) How exactly do refineries work.. I read something sayign they are good, but i built one.. and it gave me like .01/sec.. compared to like.. the.. gold a trade port can give you..

Refineries increase the efficiency of all extractors in the gravity well they are built and in gravity wells connected to the one where they are built. You have to wait a while because it takes a few minutes for them to become operational. You have to place them tactically in locations where they can affect lots of extractors to get much benefit from them, and typically they are not used until later in the game.

3) How exactly does bounty work? I mean, i get it that i can place a bounty on someones head, and pirates will attack them.. But theres a tech that gives +20% gold to bounty? So if i put down 500 on Player 2's head, its worth 600?

You got it. In practice, the pirates are only dangerous for the first two or three raids, after that players rarely find it worthwhile to place any bounty whatsoever (in fact, many players, including myself, want to be the target of the pirate raid at that point in the game because killing them will level up my capital ships!)

3b) For that matter, can i put a bounty on player 2, then earn the bounty back? or wat? im just really confused in this area..

No, you cannot earn your own bounty back, only the bounty placed by other players.

4) Is there a place to find replays for the newest entrenchment patch?

There was a recent update, and updates invalidate old replays. So there won't be that many replays for the current version of the game yet. I suspect people will start posting them shortly.

5) What do i use to use those asteroids that cant be colonized..? i ran into a gravity well or w/e that just had a metal asteroid, but, idk how to build on it to get its resources w/there being a colonized thing...

Colony frigates can capture the extractors individually. Vasari can capture them with scouts, and this is a massive advantage for them.

6) Are there any *should download* mods that completely enhance the game?(Ie for anyone that plays/played Europa universalis 3, the magna mundi mod greatly enhances the game in a lot of ways...ai improvements, balances, etc)

That is really a matter of preference. I'm sure others will show up and tell you about the mods they enjoy. I play the game clean, though occasionally I'll play mods with other people.

7) lastly.. I doubt someone will really do this.. but can someone put up an honest general Pros/Cons of each race..?

TEC: cheap/though units, good healing abilities, most technologies accessible with few labs. Not really overpowering in any way, though.

Advent: powerful units, incredible shields, wicked capital ships. Not much in the way of economic technology, though.

Vasari: shield-bypass technology, phase stabilization technology, mobile starbases, most military techs available VERY early on the tech tree. However, their units give the least "bang for your buck" of any faction.

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1) Is it just me, or are vasari capital ships kind of dumb/weak comparatively? And beyong that, them in general..I love the idea of teleporting around and being extremely offensive.. but their ships seem so weak for their cost, and their econ doesnt really shine in any way...? (other than, i guess, deleting my own ships for less resources?)

Darvin answered the questions pretty good, but i have to clarify more on this one. Vasari Caps are probably the best in the game: they just have very specialized rolls. the egg is great at killing a cap in focus fire. THe Kortul can make enemy piles of metal with weapons, the skinantra has a great healing ability and has the only ability that can heal strike craft in the game. The Vulcuras Desolator is now probably better at bombing than the Marza making it the best seige cap in the game. and the Maurader is espesially specialized, It can make entire fleets ignore Phase Jump Inhibitors, (Which is huge in MP) it can stun a cap and heal or damage it depending on if it is freindly or enemy.

Also The vasari have the best early game econ and 2nd best late game econ (only beaten by TEC and purvasive economy) They can capture nutrals with scouts and resourse increse research has both metal and crystal combined, and they have a rediculous econ once trade is up.

The only disadvantage that the vasari have as you said is they get the worst bang for the buck. But early game they can easily out produce anyone else, and late game they ahve amazing support cruisers, and they awsome late game weapons and stratagies that other races just cant compete with (Kostras/ Returning Armada)

_|~Uber

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Excellent write-ups Darvin3 and Top Vasari!

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Quoting Darvin3,

reply 1

Beyond that, Vasari actually do have a pretty good economy. Their scouts can capture and hold neutral extractors much earlier and more effectively than the weak, slow, and expensive colony frigates of the other factions. The four lab trade port research isn't as much of a disadvantage as it may appear. Yes, you cannot go "fast trade" as Vasari, but once you start getting more experienced you'll find there are so many viable (and most often superior) alternatives to trade ports in the early game that this doesn't count for a lot.

I know neutral rushing with scouts is a big one, and the techs for ice and volcanic help, but other econ ideas for vasari? please explain. (no really, the more i read on here the more i realize playing SP has done nothing for the depth of the game for me.

Quoting Darvin3,

reply 1

Vasari: shield-bypass technology, phase stabilization technology, mobile starbases, most military techs available VERY early on the tech tree. However, their units give the least "bang for your buck" of any faction.

this continues to irritate me. "we are the giant, monolithic conquering alien empire and we... blow. better now, but still in terms of "hey i just spent a crap ton on this fleet and oh look ..." *dead* nothing is worse than being a surprised vasair player.

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For question 3, the answer partly depends on faction.

If you're the Advent, the technology Persuasive Offers increases the value of the bounty you put on other players by 12.5%/25% (so putting up 500 credits with max PO results in 625 credits up for grabs).

If you're the Vasari, the tech Expert Bounty Hunters increases the amount of bounty you would collect by destroying other ships/structures by 12.5%/25%.

The TEC have no techs revolving around putting up/claiming bounty.

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I know neutral rushing with scouts is a big one, and the techs for ice and volcanic help, but other econ ideas for vasari? please explain. (no really, the more i read on here the more i realize playing SP has done nothing for the depth of the game for me.

Actually the population upgrades for ice/volcanic aren't a big deal. You need a lot of those varieties of planets to make them worthwhile.

No faction has amazing civic technologies early in the tech tree. It's all about low-lying fruit; buying a relatively inexpensive technology early on and reaping a long-term advantage with it. Perfect examples are the Vasari cost discount on frigates/structures and their bundled extractor technology. The TEC on the other hand get a discount at the black market and of frigate factories/extractors. Until you hit pervasive economy (now that is a miracle worker) the TEC don't have any major item that sets them apart. The Vasari tree, if anything, has a greater variety of goodies as you work your way along the tech tree.

The gut instinct is to compare 2-labs to access trade ports with 4-labs to access trade ports. Yeah, this is advantage TEC, but as I already said it's not a significant advantage. In practice you can find alternatives to trade port income during the early game, and by the time you really need to adopt trade ports those four labs shouldn't be a major issue. If anything, Advent has a significant edge with two-lab culture, because that you can bring out early to excellent effect.

The TEC have no techs revolving around putting up/claiming bounty.

TEC get a discount at the black market instead. One of the best technologies out there if your economy is credit-heavy.

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A little more info on the refineries. Keep in mind the refineries effect the planet you built it in and each planet directly connected to that one as well, so long as you own those planets. So even if it is only netting you a small amount in that one planet you built it in, you will notice that its also giving a small amount in the neighboring planets and that adds up.

One of the vasari techs that is really usefull is the one that allows you to collect resources from capital ships and structures you have destroyed. If you are fighting a lot that can really boost your resources.

Personnally I think the phase stabilizers and mobile Starbases alone make the Vasari the most powerful, but that may just be me.

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Does that tech really work? Where the vasari can collect resources from the rubble?

I've never seen it work, is there a particular ship that collects it or what?

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It works yes, but there is no visual indication of it working other then your resources shooting up faster then normal.

In my last game I had upto 6 planets but then 3 AI allied together and pushed me down to just 2 planets and this tech became very helpfull for me to maintain my research and develoment while I "entrenched" myself on my small holdings.

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