Eh...I don't see why not...

On the Iconus guardian, repulsion is limited by antimatter, not cooldown...the shield sharing damage ability is sometimes limited by antimatter, more usually by running out of shields...both domina's abilities are channeling, so cooldown time isn't a big deal for them...the illuminators' deceptive illusion does have a fairly long cooldown, but it's really a rather weak ability...so for all these things, antimatter is more important than cooldown...

Most of the capital ship abilities are limited more by antimatter than by than cooldown...the cooldown bonus is kind of like gravy on an ability that already may be somewhat weak....the antimatter cost decrease, as I said earlier, won't even reach 25% at level 3...that's a decent bonus, but I'd much rather have energy aura...

Alone, I don't think either bonus isn't strong enough...so I combined them...

We'll figure something out, I'm not worried

There still doesn't seem to be any good explanation of the changes to the Radiance?  I am very unenthusiastic about the 0.21 version.

With a hull regeneration ability dependent on fire taken, the ship will tank.  With the increased mitigation and range and shorter cooldown the ship will become yet a further Advent ship that is deadly to TEC as part of a battleball, and that Vasari will have to attack with phase missiles.  This is neither balanced nor needed.  The concept is just wrong, and probably unplayable.

Also, the current 1.19 ability has a limited range and a reasonable target cap of 8/16/32.  To vastly increase the target cap- to a stupid level of 512- for no apparent reason, then claim that the ability is too strong with hull regeneration, just seems incomprehensible.  It would be practical without these extra changes.  The Radiance will hardly be invincible if the ability can only affect part of a fleet, and has a lengthy cooldown.

I am still concerned that there isn't an organised testing schedule for this mod.  There are experienced players who want changes to multiplayer and who will help given proper encouragement.  Its very positive when we can meet and play and discuss the mod, rather than have to deal with the often poor notions of players who have never been online.   

I dont understand the changes to clairvoiance on a conceptual level... increase in bombing damage? erm.. decrease in am usage and cooldown? huh?, how about this...

In addition to seeing the target planet, it also grants a "phase jump detection active" buff to the planet its looking at.(the same thing overseers use... you know, that technology that no one ever ever ever researchs?)

THis way, not only can you see the planet, but you also know if say, a giant enemy fleet is warping to (or maybe, away as well?) that planet.  Perhaps give lv2 of the ability a passive "phase jump detection active" buff to the revelation itself, so that It can be sitting in an enemy grav well and know ahead of time that a giant armada is about to warp in to inturrupt its planet bombing... and it can give itself more time to run away.

if its possible... (no idea...) perhaps make lv 3 be able to do an AoE reveal... visibility on one planet... and every planet with a warp lane to it... though, i might even call this op... and i kinda doupt its possible.

(oh, and... we (as in, every one paying attention to this thread) need some way to say "hey! i want to test now! (or,in 2 hours, or tomorrow at 5forum time or whatever..)

That's for guidance (which already decrease ability cooldown)...so I'd say its conceptually fine...

If you're really looking for a conceptual explanation...this ship can reveal a whole planet several AUs away...I think its fair to say it probably can see what are good places to bomb that might evade conventional sensors...

Honestly....yeah, you're right, it doesn't make perfect sense...but neither does a giant eye hovering over your planet...

Its not perfect, I know that...but this ship is a siege ship and its rather lacking in that capacity...the other two siege ships (aside from having siege abilities) also are very good at dealing out lots of damage...again, the revelation is lacking in this area...other than reverie this ship is pretty much worthless in team-based MP games...clairvoyance might have its uses in a 1v1, but this ship right now is a liability...I'm hoping this change will fix that...

We do have this forum for that (specifically, this thread)...there are other ways to contact people, but other than cell phones all those ways involve the internet...if you can check your e-mail, you can check this thread too (well, unless forums go boom)...

If you have any suggestions I am open to them...

For me personally, I will available most times on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday...if someone has a specific time in mind on one of those days, I can most likely make sure I'll be available then...if people are getting together on ICO during the week and I know about the times, I may be able to join as well, but no guarantees...

Could be done with guidance...

The only issue with that is...how do you make clairvoyance more powerful?

Pbhead's idea is not bad but I still don't think it would be enough (don't know if it would be possible either)...the reason why I like bombardment tied to clairvoyance is that its different from any other siege option...you can target a planet, give your ships a bonus to bombarding it, yet the revelation doesn't actually have to be there...that is a unique advantage that I like...I don't think it will be OP, but it will be powerful...you can take out a marza or vulkoras, or you can damage it enough to force it to flee...but this ability gets around that...less power but also much easier to use...

Fair warning. If you bump up the Sheild Migiation to high you will have unkillable ship. I do not suggest increasing it much if at all. ~85% or higher you can get ships that do not die! We learned this in DS. A Radiance in culture with the Advent tech bonuses already comes close to the threshold of max migitation you can have and still be killable. Add in your suggested values and you will see it become unkillable.

Im not understanding why the push to make the Radiance such a tanker in any form. IMHO, just b/c its the Advent BS doesnt mean you should try and put it up against other races BS. Personally TEC should have the biggest tank, due to the fact they need something since many dont synergy as well as the other races. Vasari should be next, then followed by the Advent.

I know your trying to find a way to not make Animosity a suicide like ability but, do keep in mind that you gotta put that ability in context with other Caps that will be supporting it. As it has always been the Advent rely on more than one Cap.

A accuracy debuff will give you that decreased DPS your looking for. This will have the same affect on both TEC and Vasari, than your hull regen. Since Vasari PM when they skip the shields do not get the migitation. Your basically screwing the TEC. Where as if you do a accuracy Debuff it will affect both races the same. Heck have you though about adding a 5% PM block to the ability also?

The thing with clairvoyance is, it's an ability to be used on a planet where you have no visibility, rather than where your forces are. 

Suppose it reduced credit/resource/build rates on the planet it reveals, like Sova's embargo, but not as powerful since it can be used from a distance (and it doesn't steal what's lost).  Something that would be equivalent to say a 5/10/15 percentage point reduction in allegiance (if I understand allegiance correctly, and obviously, the numbers are just thrown out).  I would be worried about it affecting allegiance directly because of how slowly culture takes to spread back and you wouldn't want the Revelation to overthrow border worlds with low allegiance while sitting behind 7 starbases (unless you're advent, but you're too biased here;).

While this wouldn't be a siege ability per se, it would be an anti-planet weapon and operate somewhat like the Culture Club's Deliverance Engine.  If you wanted to give the Revelation more synergistic siege punch, Guidance could buff the Purge's weapons to some degree.

No, I disagree...a target cap of 32 will cover the entire enemy fleet early game...yet late game, it will hardly cover anything, entirely defeating the point of this ability...the biggest threats to capital ships are LRFs and Bombers...

If you set a target cap and severely limit the range, you will never be able to draw enough LRF fire during the mid to late game...if you don't let this ability affect SC, then what's the point of animosity at all?  Bombers alone can take out capital ships before two fleets even engage each other...if you can't draw fire from bombers then animosity will not have any use after the initial expansion phase...

Yes, shield mitigation will favor Vasari...and adaptive forcefield favors TEC and iconus guardians favor Vasari and magnetize favors Advent and flak burst favors Vasari...if I didn't know better I'd just say that's part of the game...now, there are points where an ability may favor a faction too much, and right now a shield mitigation bonus on animosity would definitely cross that line...but hull regen is being a pain to balance so I'm trying something new...no its not perfect, but it's an effort...I might also note that PMs will probably be changed in the future so this affect will be dampened...

I would note that hull regen also favors Vasari...the hull increase is constant no matter what causes the damage, but PM's do more damage so the net change will favor Vasari PMs more than the other two factions' arsenals...where Advent illuminators will cause the hull to regenerate, Vasari Kanraks could still do significant damage...again, this is why I'm looking for something other than hull regen because it will never be truly balanced...

At first I was for this...but honestly I don't see the point anymore...if this is our goal, then we should just give animosity damage reduction....sure, it will take effect even if shields are up but it also can be precisely balanced...hull regen simply cannot...no matter what values we pick, there will be situations that net hull repair and situations that net damage...conceptually it's a good idea but in practice it is too imprecise to implement...

Again, might as well just add damage reduction...it would then also help against abilities...nevertheless, I do like your idea because it's different (as in, its not adaptive forcefield with higher numbers) and it would make sure no faction is favored...but, so does damage reduction

I agree...Animosity needs uniqueness, not just tanking power...

I know, which is why I tried them on animosity...obviously it's imperfect....

All abilities end as soon as you jump into phase space...

That's a good point.   The ability does last a while as well, i think, so using it as preparation for a normal assault for both the buff and the intel could work (I always send scouts to planets I'm about to attack to find out about defenses).  

Significant changes to v0.30 include:

Clairvoyance increases the siege cooldown of all friendly ships at targeted planet...Revelation does not have to be present and any ship entering the gravity well after the ability has been cast will be affected...this should give this ship the siege capabilities it finally needs....

Guidance is now a passive AoE ability...it gives all friendly ships a 10%/20%/30% antimatter cost reduction and ability cooldown...please keep in mind that given how the game mechanics work this will actually result in a 9%/17%/23% reduction in antimatter cost (same reason why the 300% reduction on flux field actually only reduces the cost by 75%)...the range on this is 8000m, the same as energy aura and concentration aura...hopefully this ability will be useful but not too powerful...

Animosity...ability has a cooldown of 60s...this means it can be activated only one third of the time....while the ability is activated the ship will have 10000% damage reduction (which essentially is like a damage multiplier of 1/101)...the purpose of this is to prevent more or less any damage...then .5/1/1.5 hull points will be restored everytime the ship takes damage (invulnerability I think would prevent this from happening)...basically, the Radiance can repair some hull points during this period, but it will be wide open to attack for 40s...ability should scale rather well (hopefully) since more ships do more damage in 40s but also will heal the hull more...

There is still a potential problem with multiple radiances but I feel we need to get something that works well on one radiance before we consume ourselves with multi-radiance situations...more balancing will probably be needed but I hope this will be a good start...

As a note, energy absorption is currently not changed in this mod...with Animosity, I think its current stats are just fine...

Missile barrage...range was decreased slightly...given how vulnerable the marza is while it uses this ability and the long cooldown, I'm very wary on reducing the damage it does...

Subversion...acts like embargo in that a simple click does the trick...no need to target the planet...this ability also does not stack...a low level marauder should be able to phase jump to any enemy world, use subversion, use distort gravity to jump to another enemy world, and use both abilities a second time without a long delay waiting for antimatter...

Shield Restore...provides 50 shields per second for 5s...this will amount to the same shield bonus given in previous versions of this mod (total of 500/750/1000) but will make this ability more useful on frigates...

i guess i can live with the siege cooldwon of friendly ships... and i was preety ok with that, its the guidance that totally threw me off, and i am sorry for getting that confused. Also, the realization that the bombardment damage increase would be where clairvoyance was cast, and not where the revelation is (was slightly confused about that)...

The damage reduction on the radiance is different and intresting... (and will get desconnor to stop complaining)... but I am not sure why the hull point regen is needed as well...  (you have effectively given the radiance 99.xx shield mitigation... where the xx is the displayed shield mitigation) 

or really... if you look over the 60 second time period... you have reduced the total damage taken (if everything in the fleet was firing at it anyway) to 66% of its origional value... you might as well give the radiance a 50% damage reduction  (whcih, the way the game stacks... if i did my math right, should reduce damage to 66% of origional value) for 60 seconds (focus fire required for only 20 seconds... I am preety sure it is possible to have 2 different effects expire at different times)... and then we lose the issues when we have multiple radiances.

of course... if the radiance is getting an 50% damage reduction... we must then again take a look at adaptive force field... which is 15/25/35% damage reduction...

do you understand what i am saying? kinda?

ermm, basicly, the change log should look like this:

--Animosity
---New buff is applied to friendly units in range that forces attackers to repick targets (for 20 seconds)
---Frequency of buffs is now once every 4s
---Now affects ships entering the area of effect after the ability has been cast
---Now affects strikecraft
---Max number of targets increased from 8/16/32 to infinite (for 20 seconds)
---Now gives a damage reduction of 50%(for 60 seconds)

---Cooldown increased from 35s to 60s

erm... well, now we have no increase per level...

but the damage reduction idea works alot better.... we dont have shield bypass issues with phase missles... we dont have healing when damage is taken with the hull regen, and we dont have rediculous shield mitigations with end game techs.

if you have an ability that can be abused, it will be abused... look at scramble bombers... we see people with 3+ skirantras running around all the time... i promise you, that those same people would switch back to advent (they were the illum spammers before), and build 3 radiances... and just stagger animocity while bombarding your homeworld... and there would be almost nothing you could do about it. (mind you... you could build 3 vulks/marzas and bomb his homeworld back... but, come on... )

First off, yes you did your math right and yes you can have buffs expire at different times...

Now, you have a good point...if all ships are shooting at the radiance anyway it should more or less be the same...the key difference is that you can only guarantee them shooting at the radiance for the first 20s...after that, they could be shooting at anything...so, the strength in this ability is temporary invulnerability + hull repair for one third the time, and absolute vulnerability 2/3 of the time...

With energy absorption this ability can and will be spammed continuously, so giving it a 50% damage reduction will reduce one third of the damage all the time (which is more than adaptive forcefield, and I don't think that should be the case)...

That it heals hull when damage is taken is sort of the point of this ability...now, the current increments are .5/1/1.5...these may have to be lowered (1.5 is very strong, but hell we need something to test) but it is different from a straight up 5 hull/s because it can't regenerate hull unless you're in combat...and, this model scales regardless of fleet size...everything else though is definitely part of our goals...and maybe we will just take away the hull regen and make the ship invulnerable...

The reason why I choose this model over just a simple hull regen on damage taken is that it is much more predictable...the previous model oscillated between healing and still taking damage depending on what was shooting at you...this model adds a fixed amount of HP regardless of what shoots you...

Now, the hull regen may need to be taken away, and this ability given a very high damage reduction (like 300% or reduce damage to 1/4) so that multiple radiances can still be killed...

The issue is making this ability work for one radiance while not being OP for multiple radiances...since hull regen has been on the table, I at least wanted to get one good model with hull regen so we can say once and for all whether hull regen is a good or bad idea...the inconsistency of the previous model made it impossible to test...

If hull regen looks to be a really bad idea, then damage reduction is probably the next step...UE_Carbon gave the idea of reducing accuracy of affected ships...we had previous ideas of debuffing the affected ships weapon cooldown...those may very well be our best option...I'm just not yet sure...

Well said...yes this is going to be a challenge to get to work...but, we have a lot of ideas to work with and a model that at least can be tested...so, there is yet hope!

I might add that LRFs currently have a range greater than Animosity's range even at lvl 3 (5000m)...granted, the radiance could move around and get in range of those ships, but I think the range right now is what prevents the taunt part of this ability from being ridiculous...