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Steam and lan play

By on March 14, 2012 11:58:37 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Azfaloth

Join Date 03/2010
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So me and my dad have had fun playing all the previous sins installments. In the past we've accomplished his by owning one copy of the game, installing it on my computer and the family computer, then played over the local area network.

 

This new stand alone expansion, however, seems to be using steam, rather than impulse. This concerns me because I am afraid it will lead to both of us not being able to play the game using the same copy anymore. Does anyone have any information as to whether or not this assumption is correct?

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March 14, 2012 2:04:56 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

You prolly can do it with some stupid creative bullshit steam-offline shenanigens... but I am quite intrested in the answer to this question myself.

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March 14, 2012 3:19:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

from ".../Program Files (x86)/Steam/steamapps/common/sins of a solar empire rebellion/eula_rebellion.txt", who is the same eula that for sins/ent/dip/tri :

YOU MAY:
1. Install and use one copy of the SOFTWARE on a single computer.
2. Install a second copy of the SOFTWARE on a second computer only if you are the main user of this computer (home computer or laptop for example).
3. Install the SOFTWARE on another computer only if you change your main workstation. In such a case you must uninstall the software from the old computer.
4. Use the SOFTWARE via a network, only if you have purchased an adequate number of licenses. The number of users must not exceed the number of licenses you have purchased.
5. Make a copy of the SOFTWARE for archival purposes only.
6. Create "mods" based on the documented functions of the SOFTWARE to customize it and upload those "mods" to sinsofasolarempire.com.

Not sure that steamwork will allow to bend the rules like in the past but normally, you need one license by player... in your case, one for you and one for your father...

By default, steam have a feature called steamguard enable... normally created for protect your account... if enabled, each time that you are using a other computer, you need to certify again your account ( e-mail, code, login )... this feature will make it difficult to have two different computer using a single account but it is possible to dissable it :

Steam/settings/account
Click Manage steam guard account security.
Tick disable it.

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March 14, 2012 4:03:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm in the same boat as Azfaloth, though I play with my brother instead.

So yeah i'm still hoping for a way too play LAN without steam kicking one of us off 

Wonder if the Devs could clear this up.

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March 14, 2012 4:14:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

has anyone tried?

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March 14, 2012 4:35:45 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Since the underlying game structure still seems to be the same as regular SINS I would guess that as long as each computer had STEAM in OFFLINE mode it would be possible to host and connect to a LAN game just the way one always could.  Of course this would also mean that you would lose all STEAMWORKS benefits whatever those turn out to be (ie. achievements, stat-tracking etc etc.)  while STEAM is in OFFLINE mode.

 

Besides, I simply don't understand why everyone seems so 'concerned' about what amounts to getting two for the price of one.  At least to me it seems like the DEVS should then be charging a hell of a lot more for the product if everyone is essentially after that.  Every game I have ever wanted to play with my sons I've purchased in multiples.

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March 14, 2012 8:50:55 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I know someone who shares a steam account, here's how it works:

If you are in a game (excepting certain games like TF2), and the steam account is logged in elsewhere, you remain in game but are logged out of steam. Thus it is certainly possible to use one copy of the game via steam to LAN with yourself. Some games can use this for transferring gear (borderlands, titan quest).

 So all you'll have to do is boot up SINS on one computer, then log into steam on the other, then set up your LAN game as per normal.

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March 15, 2012 4:07:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ressy999,
I know someone who shares a steam account, here's how it works:

If you are in a game (excepting certain games like TF2), and the steam account is logged in elsewhere, you remain in game but are logged out of steam. Thus it is certainly possible to use one copy of the game via steam to LAN with yourself. Some games can use this for transferring gear (borderlands, titan quest).

 So all you'll have to do is boot up SINS on one computer, then log into steam on the other, then set up your LAN game as per normal.

 

Cool, thanks. I've done this with one other game, so hopefully it works.

 

Quoting the_Monk,
Besides, I simply don't understand why everyone seems so 'concerned' about what amounts to getting two for the price of one.  At least to me it seems like the DEVS should then be charging a hell of a lot more for the product if everyone is essentially after that.  Every game I have ever wanted to play with my sons I've purchased in multiples.

 

It's not about getting two for the price of one. It's just that with all other installments of Sins we've been able to do this, which helps a lot when, I'll be honest, I don't have a lot of money. Thus, I would hate for a feature of a game, no matter what it is, to be disabled by an expansion to that game; since expansions are meant to expand, not detract.

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March 15, 2012 5:37:32 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Azfaloth,
Thus, I would hate for a feature of a game, no matter what it is, to be disabled by an expansion to that game; since expansions are meant to expand, not detract.

Don't see it like a feature but like a bug... read again my reply 2 in the topic, point 4 from the Eula... from the original sins to now, Eula have always say 1 license by player... so, in some way, since the begin, you don't have follow these Eula, you and your father have play with a legal and a illegal copy... not sure that it is yet the case, but if Rebellion don't allow it, it is not a feature who is removed but a bug corrected... the announced feature is 1 license by player...

With the original sins, you was able to copy it, and distribute it worldwide due to the lack of any protection... it is not because you can make something illegal that it become legal...

As for the "i don't have a lot of money", maybe wait after the final official release of rebellion... sure that there will be week-end madness with reduced price... and after some time, prices always drop...

Not sure that it is possible but it will be great if Stardock can make a familly pack... by example, order 2 license ( serial ) for the price of 1.5 ... of 4 licenses ( serial ) for the price of 2.5 ... pretty sure that it will reduce illegal use and increase sale...

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March 15, 2012 6:57:06 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Thoumsin,

Not sure that it is possible but it will be great if Stardock can make a familly pack... by example, order 2 license ( serial ) for the price of 1.5 ... of 4 licenses ( serial ) for the price of 2.5 ... pretty sure that it will reduce illegal use and increase sale...

That would be helpful. I've gotten a whole group into other games because four packs were offered, (Magicka and Sanctum to name a few.)

 

Quoting Thoumsin,

Quoting Azfaloth, reply 7Thus, I would hate for a feature of a game, no matter what it is, to be disabled by an expansion to that game; since expansions are meant to expand, not detract.

Don't see it like a feature but like a bug... read again my reply 2 in the topic, point 4 from the Eula... from the original sins to now, Eula have always say 1 license by player... so, in some way, since the begin, you don't have follow these Eula, you and your father have play with a legal and a illegal copy... not sure that it is yet the case, but if Rebellion don't allow it, it is not a feature who is removed but a bug corrected... the announced feature is 1 license by player...

 

I think I understand what your saying, though to be honest the grammar through me off a few times. And while your view is technically the correct point of view, I still am going to hope for the ability to play on a network with only one copy. It's just what I see as fair, seeing as I believe video games should only have to be purchased once per household. At the same time I understand why protective measures must be taken by game companies, which might involve limiting the ability to play with one copy of the game on multiple pc's simultaneously via network play. Since the advent of technologies like VPNs (Hamachi and etc.) make it easy to exploit this ability, thereby hurting the company, thereby limiting their ability to make more awesome games.

 

Anyway, I'll probably let Steam finish downloading the beta tonight, and some time over this weekend, when I have the time, I'll see how steam reacts to lan play while offline with one copy, and post my findings here.

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March 15, 2012 8:53:41 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Azfaloth,
 

It's not about getting two for the price of one. It's just that with all other installments of Sins we've been able to do this, which helps a lot when, I'll be honest, I don't have a lot of money. Thus, I would hate for a feature of a game, no matter what it is, to be disabled by an expansion to that game; since expansions are meant to expand, not detract.

 

It is exactly about getting two for the price of one (especially since that one is even less than any other AAA title available today......COD expansions ring a bell?).  It doesn't matter that the DEVS allowed this in the past.  Why should anyone care that you don't have money for entertainment?  Lastly, it was not a feature of the previous games.  Oh....and you are meant to pay for something per license.  That is how it works.

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March 15, 2012 9:47:19 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting the_Monk,


It is exactly about getting two for the price of one (especially since that one is even less than any other AAA title available today......COD expansions ring a bell?).

Actually the price for this expansion is above standard market price 39.95 since it is a stand alone. Of course stardock being the kind people they are, they've lowered the cost of the stand alone expansion down to the price of a standard expansion 29.99, for anyone who's owned the previous titles.

Quoting the_Monk,

 Why should anyone care that you don't have money for entertainment?

Actually, developers should care, seeing as if I don't have enough money for their merchandise, I don't buy it. I've not bought games in the past because I've not had the money to buy multiple copies and can't imagine playing games without people I know playing with me; I see games as a way to socially interact and expand relationships with people, not seclude myself.

 

Quoting the_Monk,


Lastly, it was not a feature of the previous games. 

Not a feature, but something I could do, so you'll understand if I show some mild signs of loss over what was in my ability to do.

 

Quoting the_Monk,


  Oh....and you are meant to pay for something per license.  That is how it works.

I understand this, and completely agree. But licenses can very, and some companies, like paradox interactive, for example, allow you in the licenses (at least on their flagship games) to play with one copy in the same household on multiple pc's; they even encourage it on their forums.

Now that people like Thoumsin have cleared up the issue for me, I understand this isn't stardocks stance on the issue. Thus, I am legal bound by their terms of agreement. I merely am expressing what I would prefer on these public forums in the hopes that maybe they will take head of my desires as a costumer. Once again, I'm not expecting/demanding anything of them anymore, just hoping.

 

P.S. Thanks for the help everyone

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March 15, 2012 10:24:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Azfaloth,
Actually, developers should care, seeing as if I don't have enough money for their merchandise, I don't buy it. I've not bought games in the past because I've not had the money to buy multiple copies and can't imagine playing games without people I know playing with me; I see games as a way to socially interact and expand relationships with people, not seclude myself.

Well, you have already pay for your copy... if your father wish to play with you, why he cannot buy his own copy ??? same thing in case of friends...

When you go to some tavern with friend, do you pay the drink for everybody??? In my own case, each pay what he drink or we pay by turn... if you pay for everybody, it is not a friend relationship but more a leech relationship !!!

 

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March 15, 2012 10:41:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Since you have Sins already, you should be able to get the discount. Just get two accounts and it'll save you the time more than the $30 is worth trying to get around it.

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March 15, 2012 10:51:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Thoumsin,

Quoting Azfaloth, reply 11Actually, developers should care, seeing as if I don't have enough money for their merchandise, I don't buy it. I've not bought games in the past because I've not had the money to buy multiple copies and can't imagine playing games without people I know playing with me; I see games as a way to socially interact and expand relationships with people, not seclude myself.

Well, you have already pay for your copy... if your father wish to play with you, why he cannot buy his own copy ??? same thing in case of friends...

When you go to some tavern with friend, do you pay the drink for everybody??? In my own case, each pay what he drink or we pay by turn... if you pay for everybody, it is not a friend relationship but more a leech relationship !!!

 

 

Your analogy makes sense. And my dad would and will, if push comes to shove, purchase his own copy. So in this particular case, your statement makes sense. However, I have a few younger sisters who don't have any money to speak of, and there are a few games we like to play together (not sins mind you.) Anyway, the point is they don't have money, and as their older brother I am usually the one who ends up buying the games for them; for example, magicka. As stated above, I was able to do this because magicka offered a four pack for a reasonable price. On the other hand, their have been some games the lot of us have been interested in playing, but I just couldn't justify putting down 59.99 on four different copies (that's around 240.00 on one game, that's hard to justify unless its a really fantastic game.) As they're my little sisters, I hardly consider it a leech relationship, more of a dependent relationship. But anyway, I completely understand your point, and I do expect my friends to pay; and as said above, if I can't get lan mode to work with one copy my dad will pay too, seeing as he has the financial ability. So you are correct in all you said above.

But my point still remains. As their are some games I simply know I wont play by my self, and their are some people in my household that are dependent on me, so I won't buy the game if I can't get a few copies for an affordable price, or better yet, only have to buy one copy.

While it is not a requirement or big concern for companies to cater to my every desire. It still should take at least some minor precedence, seeing as a capitalistic society needs a flow of communication between the merchants and the consumers in order to be able to function properly. And if consumers aren't buying, for any reason (whether it's my specific example or anything else), it's in the merchants best interest to at least understand why, even if they don't act on this information. Thus the underlying point I was trying to make to the_monk was simply that companies should indeed care about my financial capabilities, even if, as stated before, they don't act upon them.

If I'm not being clear I'll gladly try to explain myself further.

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March 15, 2012 10:53:31 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DavidtheDuke,
Since you have Sins already, you should be able to get the discount. Just get two accounts and it'll save you the time more than the $30 is worth trying to get around it.

 

I've already purchased the game at a discounted price one. The question is, if I use my same impulse account will I be able to buy another copy for the reduced price? or will it make me pay full price since I only have one copy of trinity and I've already used it to by the first discounted expansion?

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March 15, 2012 11:11:30 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Azfaloth,
Quoting the_Monk, reply 10
 Why should anyone care that you don't have money for entertainment?

Actually, developers should care, seeing as if I don't have enough money for their merchandise, I don't buy it. I've not bought games in the past because I've not had the money to buy multiple copies and can't imagine playing games without people I know playing with me; I see games as a way to socially interact and expand relationships with people, not seclude myself.

No.  Entertainment happens with money left over after the necessary things in life are paid for. 

In one breath you're saying you would like the DEVS to essentially give you another copy of a game because you don't have enough money to buy multiple copies of same as well as saying that they should care about your lack of funding for entertainment because if you can't play with people you want to (ie. have multiple copies of the game for use with one single purchase) you won't purchase anything at all.

 

Quoting Azfaloth,

Quoting the_Monk, reply 10
Lastly, it was not a feature of the previous games. 

Not a feature, but something I could do, so you'll understand if I show some mild signs of loss over what was in my ability to do.

I get it.  While the town I used to speed my ass through everday didn't have a police radar trap I was enjoying a nice fast commute to work each day.  Damn them for putting a cop in that town.  My commute now takes an extra 15 minutes........argh!

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March 15, 2012 11:20:00 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Azfaloth,
......... On the other hand, their have been some games the lot of us have been interested in playing, but I just couldn't justify putting down 59.99 on four different copies (that's around 240.00 on one game, that's hard to justify unless its a really fantastic game.)

 

Ask your dad how much it costs him taking the family out to dinner sometime.  Our family doesn't go out to eat very often (no more than 1-2 every couple of months mainly because I'm one hell of a cook!  )  but when we do those few times per year the bill doesn't seem to have any problems climbing to the $200 mark.  That's just one meal mind you.  Not endless hours of family fun.  Keep things in perspective.......

 

EDIT:

I brought out this example because I do not think of going out to eat as a necessary life cost.  I can and mostly do prepare better/healthier and much much cheaper meals most days at home.  Eating out is (for our family) a form of social interaction/entertainment only.

 

Quoting Azfaloth,

Thus the underlying point I was trying to make to the_monk was simply that companies should indeed care about my financial capabilities, even if, as stated before, they don't act upon them.

 

No.  The target market for any business is not the user who wants to (or can only) afford a single-purchase while garnering more than a single-license for same.  That is just foolish business sense.

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March 15, 2012 11:46:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting the_Monk,


No.  Entertainment happens with money left over after the necessary things in life are paid for. 

In one breath you're saying you would like the DEVS to essentially give you another copy of a game because you don't have enough money to buy multiple copies of same as well as saying that they should care about your lack of funding for entertainment because if you can't play with people you want to (ie. have multiple copies of the game for use with one single purchase) you won't purchase anything at all.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. In a nutshell, my lack of funds can lead to me being unable to buy every game I want. So I have to be selective. As a capitalistic society, it's in the interest of game makers to try to be the company that makes and markets the game I chose over another game made by another company for a less affordable price.

 

Quoting the_Monk,

Quoting Azfaloth, reply 11
Quoting the_Monk, reply 10
Lastly, it was not a feature of the previous games. 

Not a feature, but something I could do, so you'll understand if I show some mild signs of loss over what was in my ability to do.

I get it.  While the town I used to speed my ass through everday didn't have a police radar trap I was enjoying a nice fast commute to work each day.  Damn them for putting a cop in that town.  My commute now takes an extra 15 minutes........argh!

 

It was, in the past of pc gaming, the tradition that one could put multiple copies of a game on multiple pc's the same household. It was a system that worked, and a system I liked. Thus, I don't see it as inherently wrong to simply request that the system be changed.

In terms of your analogy, If find it unfair and slightly sarcastic, which I don't appreciate. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I understand were exchanging thoughts and points of view here, but I figure we can do so in a kind way. I have already changed my view point based on some of the things said on this forum. But I'm only willing to do so when ideas are presented in non-offensive way.Take how Thoumsin argued his point, for example. He used direct quotation from the User Agreement and in a calm logical way. At the same time I could just be reading your post wrong, in which case; please let me know your intention, and I'm sorry.

But ultimately, I'll work with your analogy anyway. In terms of what I was saying, the system (in the sense of the standard in pc gaming) used to allow users to play on lan with the same copy. I'm simply regretting that change. While I understand that it isn't stardocks fault, nor do I expect anything from them, I still think I'm allowed to mourn the loss of something. Meaning that a more appropriate analogy would be a road that used to have an unmarked speed limit was one day given a speed limit, but not enforced, thus it's drivers continued to drive whatever speed they wanted. Then on an even later date, the speed limit began being enforced, forcing the drivers to take more time. Yes, I'll admit it, I'm one of the drivers who broke the speed limit even after it was initially place, which is technically wrong. In other words, I admit that I'm technically wrong. At the same time, going a half a mile per hour over the speed limit is technically wrong; but who doesn't do that. Now I'm not trying to justify one misdeed with another. However, in that example no one gets hurt, yet it's still completely illegal. So I'm not whining for stardock to change, and I hope I'm not coming across that way. In my initial post I simply had a question, and it was answered.

Since then I've just tried to explain my point of view a little, so that other people might understand, at the same time I've also grown to understand other peoples points of view.



I guess ultimately, (and I'll have to stop after this, and we'll have to agree to disagree since we probably won't see eye to eye on every point,) I admit to doing something technically illegal (i.e playing sins on two computers with the same copy) unknowingly. And in the future I will try not to make that same mistake. At the same time, I do think I still, as an human being, have the right to express the way I want  things to be, even if they'll never become what I want them to be.

That being said, Sins is a Great Game, and I'm glad the developers have made it.

Furthermore, I hope I haven't offended anyone today and have expressed my views accurately.

Well I better call it a night, it's getting late here in my timezone and I have college in the morning.

 

P.S. Thanks to everyone for the free exchange of ideas

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March 15, 2012 11:49:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting the_Monk,

Quoting Azfaloth, reply 14......... On the other hand, their have been some games the lot of us have been interested in playing, but I just couldn't justify putting down 59.99 on four different copies (that's around 240.00 on one game, that's hard to justify unless its a really fantastic game.)

 

Ask your dad how much it costs him taking the family out to dinner sometime.  Our family doesn't go out to eat very often (no more than 1-2 every couple of months mainly because I'm one hell of a cook!  )  but when we do those few times per year the bill doesn't seem to have any problems climbing to the $200 mark.  That's just one meal mind you.  Not endless hours of family fun.  Keep things in perspective.......

 

EDIT:

I brought out this example because I do not think of going out to eat as a necessary life cost.  I can and mostly do prepare better/healthier and much much cheaper meals most days at home.  Eating out is (for our family) a form of social interaction/entertainment only.

 

I see you're point

 

Quoting the_Monk,

Quoting Azfaloth, reply 14

Thus the underlying point I was trying to make to the_monk was simply that companies should indeed care about my financial capabilities, even if, as stated before, they don't act upon them.


 

No.  The target market for any business is not the user who wants to (or can only) afford a single-purchase while garnering more than a single-license for same.  That is just foolish business sense.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree, I don't want to get off topic talking about business and economy

 

 

EDIT: and before I go, a +1 to the_monk and Thoumsin for being willing to discuss this issue

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March 16, 2012 12:08:50 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Azfaloth,
However, I have a few younger sisters who don't have any money to speak of, and there are a few games we like to play together (not sins mind you.) Anyway, the point is they don't have money, and as their older brother I am usually the one who ends up buying the games for them; for example, magicka. As stated above, I was able to do this because magicka offered a four pack for a reasonable price.

Do you remember the launch of Trinity on Steam ? I was less that 10 euro !!!

Now, Rebellion can seem expensive but i am pretty sure that AFTER release, a few weeks or maybe 3 month after there will be a huge drop in price... people who wish instant gratification will pay the full price, people who are patient will be able to have 3-4 copies of the game for the same amount that at release time...

Quoting Azfaloth,
I think I understand what your saying, though to be honest the grammar through me off a few times.

Well, i can explain... my first language is French... second is Dutch and third is english ... know some modern greek from school but i have forget a lot... have some basis of Spanish, Italian and Russian too...

Since English was self learned from when i have stay at the Nasa center of Houston for 6 month, by contact with people, i don't know anything about English grammar...

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March 16, 2012 11:43:42 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Thoumsin,

Quoting Azfaloth, reply 14However, I have a few younger sisters who don't have any money to speak of, and there are a few games we like to play together (not sins mind you.) Anyway, the point is they don't have money, and as their older brother I am usually the one who ends up buying the games for them; for example, magicka. As stated above, I was able to do this because magicka offered a four pack for a reasonable price.

Do you remember the launch of Trinity on Steam ? I was less that 10 euro !!!

Now, Rebellion can seem expensive but i am pretty sure that AFTER release, a few weeks or maybe 3 month after there will be a huge drop in price... people who wish instant gratification will pay the full price, people who are patient will be able to have 3-4 copies of the game for the same amount that at release time...

That's true. Though I'm certain it will take at least 3 months, I'm sure my pocket book would be pleased.

Quoting Thoumsin,

Quoting Azfaloth, reply 9I think I understand what your saying, though to be honest the grammar through me off a few times.

Well, i can explain... my first language is French... second is Dutch and third is english ... know some modern greek from school but i have forget a lot... have some basis of Spanish, Italian and Russian too...

Since English was self learned from when i have stay at the Nasa center of Houston for 6 month, by contact with people, i don't know anything about English grammar...

Well, you're doing great for it being your third language.

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