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This forum is not for me to "troll"

By on June 12, 2012 6:34:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Mecha-Lenin

Join Date 02/2006
+35

Therefore I'm out of this forum. There are maybe 4-5 active posters on this forum who know anything about balance. Now minus 1. You clearly don't want any advice or discussion on balancing, because you are doing great job yourselves. Keep it up!

Bye Bye

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June 12, 2012 6:38:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

okay

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June 12, 2012 6:44:20 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

 There really is a different between constructive and destructive feedback.  The devs have and always will welcome constructive feedback, even if negative.  Trolling and destructive feedback which have been the specialties of the MP community as of late haven't been helping matters.  I get that you guys are very greatly frustrated.  I appreciate the concern you've had for the balance for this game, even if we've disagreed on almost everything and it generally wasn't constructive.  You have made an active attempt to help the game which is good, but bear in mind that you need to consider that the devs are people that have feelings and trolling their forum and insulting their game isn't going to help your cause.

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June 12, 2012 6:50:06 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
insulting their game

Where did I insult their game? I pointed out that there were no balance changes for over a month, which given the state of balance is... a sin.

I pointed out flaws in balance and proposed solutions. Thread was constructive. If devs can't take criticism, there's no point for me to be here.

And if they were referring to "Guide", that thread was joke in it's entirety. If anyone treated it seriously, it's his own fault.

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June 12, 2012 6:52:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Maybe you never meant to insult it, mate, but that's how it came out. Come on, it's release day and one of the first topics they get is calling the game or part of it shit? I don't blame them for being pissed off a little bit.

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June 12, 2012 6:52:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

always though yarlen was actually amused at mecha not insulted.

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June 12, 2012 7:21:11 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Moustachio86,
Maybe you never meant to insult it, mate, but that's how it came out. Come on, it's release day and one of the first topics they get is calling the game or part of it shit? I don't blame them for being pissed off a little bit.

Using word "shit" is no reason to close 2 page thread. If I replaced that word (which I actually did, after 1h or so), with another one, would it make any difference? It was strongly worded post, but that's because I'm fed up with meaningless, polite discussions you see on this forum. That's my style. It shoudn't have mattered, because that post was more constructive than most threads since launch.

 

Just to state the obvious, every suggestion by MP community regarding balance was ignored. Really, what's the point of posting?

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June 12, 2012 8:27:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So stop posting.  Ironclad probably had other priorites before release, such as ironing out remaining bugs, crashes and desynchs.  They responding to you immediately and said they're working on a balance patch.  You continued to QQ and insult.  Multiplayer is not the 99% of Sins, you're the 1%.  Insuring single player is working flawlessly for release is more important than your 5v5 balance issues.

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June 12, 2012 8:29:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Not sure if they gonna rad this 

Vasari mobile SB rush still viable. Didn't have it in first 5 min it took me 15-20 min. Implemented on 3 occasions always successful and it was game and morale breaker. It was 5v5 match 1x i was doubling 2x It was 1v1 in 5v5 game (means I was fighting guy as well while rushing it.

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June 12, 2012 8:35:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It was you guys that said that the VR were even more OP than the VL and despite not being nerfed much, they were the only ones that were.  This wasn't a balance patch.  The only real balance items were Starbase Mobilization getting pushed back (doesn't help late-game, but at least it stops it from being rushed so easily), Enslaved Labor getting removed from the VR (honestly, I think this will actually neft the VR quite a bit, but maybe that's just me), and Subjugating Assault getting buffed.

This patch was all about stability and stomping out bugs and probably more importantly, desyncs.  You may say that the game is unplayable due to balance (and I'm inclined to agree with you; it is still quite bad), but the fact is, they did try to throw you guys a bone here.  They buffed the weakest faction and nerfed the strongest.  You can debate how much and how effective it was, but it sounds like those things were more attempts to try to do something to show that they do care.  Their huge time investment was stability.  If their game isn't stable upon release that reflects worse on them in the long run than balance problems.

If you want to leave after 1.02, I'd say go ahead, but I think you should understand that just because they aren't focusing on balance doesn't mean they didn't improve the experience.  MP went from actually unplayable (due to the combination of minidumps and desyncs) to effectively unplayable.  You can finish games much more easily now than before and that's the point.  Sure, you still have the balance problems, but that wasn't the focus of this patch.

For now, I'd suggest waiting to see what happens when the developers focus their effort behind balancing the three races as opposed to fixing the game.

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June 12, 2012 8:36:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting lbgsloan,
Insuring single player is working flawlessly for release is more important than your 5v5 balance issues.
Both are equally important.

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June 12, 2012 8:38:17 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I said I'm leaving forum. As for Sins, I'm not playing until patch, then we'll see. If balance will be still bad I'll probably leave. I already applied for Novus Aeterno beta, that game looks very promising.

Quoting Mecha-Lenin,
This patch was all about stability

That's coders job. Don't tell me coders do the balancing.

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June 12, 2012 8:48:30 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Everybody just calm down. The game just released. Devs have said next patch will focus more on balance. If you've been dealing/waiting so long that your patience has run out and you can't take it any more, then chill out with some other game for a while until 1.02 releases. It's not that hard. If I was the devs I'd be pissed off that some bored kid is on a personal crusade to troll the forums with continual stupid troll threads just because they haven't implemented his balance changes yet.

Having said all that, I completely agree with Mecha-Lenin's and others assessment of the state of MP balance. I am not much interested in SP, and want MP to be in a balanced, playable state. I haven't been around as long as they have though so I have more patience to see how early Rebellion patches improve things. But trolling and trying to shit on their release day is just such a childish way to go about things - very counter productive. Devs appreciate MP players who can give insights and suggestions but also have some manners and not freak out when their demands aren't listened to. Your #1 priority is not necessarily their #1 priority. I have faith that it still is a priority on their list though. Constructive criticism. I know you can do it. And if you can't then just take a breather for a while. It's supposed to be a game you play for fun right? Even if it is competitive fun...

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June 12, 2012 9:00:55 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Rovert10,
ways though yarlen was actually amused at mecha not insulted.

Yarlen didn't lock it, Brad did...hardly surprising....

Odds are Yarlen, Kyro or Brad will post in this thread with something like "We don't want you here anyways" and then lock it...poor Greg, he actually makes legit posts that are probably ignored...

Quoting lbgsloan,
Multiplayer is not the 99% of Sins, you're the 1%. Insuring single player is working flawlessly for release is more important than your 5v5 balance issues.

It is true that SP is the base for Stardock, but you are fooling yourself if you don't think balance affects singleplayer...

Some of the MP guys act like asshats at times...but I have found that many in the SP community are no better...they are just as arrogant, egocentric (devs should only care about SP or MP), and insulting...

The only 2 differences are:

  1. The MP guys actually know the game and know what the are talking about
  2. The SP guys only insult the MP crowd (the "ones who deserve it") and not the devs

What does this mean?  The devs ignore the people who know what they're talking about solely because of their tone...I understand that lacking tact often leads to you being ignored, and I'm not saying the MP guys are justified in their conduct...but dear god some of you act like they are the devil incarnate...furthermore, I continually see forum members dismissing the suggestions of those like Mecha because, well, Mecha is mean and I don't like him so obviously no one should listen to his ideas...

This us versus them mentality is bullshit....it is taxing, and it is killing the community...my greatest fear is that this community will evolve into an epic example of group think...all the experienced guys will be told to shut up, and the only "feedback" the devs will get is fanboy raving and loving which, while it may make the devs feel good, does not do a damn thing to improve the game....

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June 12, 2012 9:53:56 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

@Mecha:

Actually, given how small IC is (and probably SD, but I don't remember how many people they have), I think the coders probably are the ones that do the balancings.

@Sel:

Agreed.

SP Community: "we matter because we're the vast majority"
MP Community: "we matter because we know what we're talking about"

SP@MP: "You guys are jerks."
MP@SP: "You guys are ignorant morons." 

Fact is, both are needed.  The huge numbers in SP are great for hunting down bugs due to sheer manpower while MP is very much focused on balance.  Both sides are useful for the development of a game such as this and the us-versus-them mentality is causing problems.

That's part of the reason why I'm not a fan of Mecha leaving.  Yeah, we disagree a lot, but I still respect his opinion as I know that he is very interested in the success of the game, even if he doesn't express it in the nicest way possible.

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June 12, 2012 10:26:18 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

If everyone took on the diplomatic tone of volt i dare say we'd have less issues. I agree with a lot of things the mp say on balance (i do read the forums a lot) but its how they go about it is what frustrates me. Like its not that hard to be polite... even to inexperienced "noobs" with their not so good ideas for balance.

 

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June 12, 2012 10:45:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

First off.. For those who dont know me, Im Spoecter.

 

I have owned sins since the game was released. I have logged countless hours playing with great players (including mecha).

I fully support mecha on these posts. I dont think it was handled like it should have been, but if there is 1 thing to take from his post, it shows how frustrated he is with a game that we have all put so much time into and truly love. No other game has ever offered me what sins does. But to me, that's where it ends. The devs are good people and work hard, but there is a serious lack of listening to the community. This is exactly why every night, there are no more than 100 people online and it will go back to that.

 

The one thing that IC and the devs need to understand, every sins player like myself, BIA, any other clan, or player that has put as much (vasari) blood, (TEC) sweat, and (advent) tears just want this game to be the best it can be. I dont think that you can please everyone, but they need to listen to players (SP or MP and who gives a crap about the difference). We are what makes ICO and SOASE what they are

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June 12, 2012 10:49:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have not been to this forum for ages, have not seen any previous posts by Mecha-Lenin, but the tone of his OP makes me feel like disregarding any balance suggestion he ever makes.

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June 12, 2012 10:53:06 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Falcrack,
I have not been to this forum for ages, have not seen any previous posts by Mecha-Lenin, but the tone of his OP makes me feel like disregarding any balance suggestion he ever makes.

 

Did you read the post above yours? Thats exactly what it was. 

You shouldnt even bothered posting because you clearly have no idea what your talking about. All you are attempting to do is incite. Its not constructive at all. 

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June 12, 2012 10:53:33 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
MP Community: "we matter because we know what we're talking about"

 

Thats just it though, how is their 'balancing' ideas, any better than someone who is not at that ICO 'pro' level?

 

Just b/c they play on the majority a single game mode, does not make them the end all be all of what is balanced.

 

My thoughts are just as vaild as theirs, Ive played MP, Ive done SP, Ive done modding. Why are my thoughts instantly dimissed by them b/c Im not one of them? Why is anyone opinions dismissed by them for that reason?

 

They are quick to blast anyone but themselfs, causing drama that plagues this forum. As Ive said for years now, Its their attitude both in game, on ICO, and on the forums that is root to alot of their issues with low player counts online. 

 

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
SP Community: "we matter because we're the vast majority"

 

We matter no more than they do in the big picture. Its the fact we are treated as second class players b/c of our choice ot play SP or mostly against the AI.

But our thoughts on any balance changes and addtions to the game, etc etc are as worthy as any MP players comment.

 

 

 

 

All this besides the point, b/c if I was the dev, I ignore all of us. After all its their game. If we dont like it, we can not play it or mod it.

On a related note, If the 'pro' group was so worried about balance and didnt think IC can balance it. Make a MOD! Since the ICO numbers are small, you should have no problem getting the balance mod to be popular.

There have been many games that have seen a community mod become the standard.

 

 

Blargh, Im getting on a soapbox. 

 

TL;DR:

 

There is no one group in the community who opinions on the game are greater than the other. Everyone brings the exact same level of thoughts to the table. And in the end, its the Devs choice. So deal with it.

 

 

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June 12, 2012 10:56:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting -Ue_Carbon,


All this besides the point, b/c if I was the dev, I ignore all of us. After all its their game. If we dont like it, we can not play it or mod it.

On a related note, If the 'pro' group was so worried about balance and didnt think IC can balance it. Make a MOD! Since the ICO numbers are small, you should have no problem getting the balance mod to be popular.

There have been many games that have seen a community mod become the standard.

 

 

In regard to the top statement. Without players IC wouldnt exist. Games are about the players. Thats just bad business.

 

Modding should not have to be what happens to balance a game.That should be the baseline of the game and you mod off of that. 

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June 12, 2012 11:00:42 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Why the fuck is everyone here so mad lately? Just grab yourselves a beer and forget about your sins for a bit (drinking beer isn't a sin, is it?).

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June 12, 2012 11:07:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius,
drinking beer isn't a sin, is it?

Not last I checked, but overdrinking is.

 

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June 12, 2012 11:14:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ryat,

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius, reply 22drinking beer isn't a sin, is it?

Not last I checked, but overdrinking is.
Cheers then, Ryat!

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June 12, 2012 11:15:24 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

What you guys fail to see is that the tone some of you people take is more destructive than you think. I've seen it time and time again where yes, there are vary blatant balance issues that skilled players are finding and exploiting but the corresponding next-day waaaahmbulance of a rant thread actually hurts the player base!

Personally, and I am very sure I am not alone, I visit the forums of any game before I put in my hard earned money into it. If there are an overabundance of bug and broken game issues I'll immediately look elsewhere without trying it firsthand, because 40-60 dollars towards a potentially broken game is not worth it. NEW potential players WILL defer to the loudest opinions on the game forums!! 

The WAY you present criticisms goes a long way towards helping the game overall. Vicious bashing of an unpolished but great game like sins is only going to make sins2 go the way of Battlezone 3....


 "As I said above[about why Battlezone III was never made], this tenaciousness can really backfire and hurt things – if the BZ1 fans hadn't bashed BZ2 for so long, then there might have been more people exposed to BZ2." -Nathan Mates, Programmer for Battlezone series

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June 12, 2012 11:23:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting msawdey,
In regard to the top statement. Without players IC wouldnt exist. Games are about the players. Thats just bad business.

 

Modding should not have to be what happens to balance a game.That should be the baseline of the game and you mod off of that. 

 

Players are playing their game. They have a vision for it, that is the bottom line. 

Bad business is to diverge from the scope of your vision/game to please people. As it has shown, sticking to their ideology for this game works.

 

 

You have a baseline balance, right now. Its it something alot of people agree with? Sure doesnt look like it. That doesnt mean the baseline is not there.

Even if they tweak this or that...its never gonna appeal to everyone. Hence my statement. Take what is given to you, tweak it to your standards and enjoy. Why this is unacceptable to people I do not get. If your vision for the game differs from what the Devs have provided. You have been given a grand opportunity to make the game experience yours. Take it people! Only good things can come from it.

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