Oh Em Gee! Megaships!

like the great harbor ship of Bentus! (from Homeworld)

OMG, can you sound more like a newbie.

Not trying to be offensive, but can you at least tell us the reasons why you would want them in besides the fact that, according to you, they are awesome. And also use the search function there have been threads discussing possible balance issues involved.

Well he used the word "cusp" so he gets at least one brownie point.

we already got a thread about this, so bump it, or what ever.
And like what TheGreatEmperor said, give some suggestions on the subject

My reasons:

1. OH CRUD MOMENTS: Moments in a game where you just go "Oh crud." I had sent out an "expeditionary force" of about 3-5 capital ships into a new solar system. I figured it could explore around a little bit, maybe capture a planet, establish a foot base.

It did way more then that. I captured like three planets and just caused general mayhem in the enemy solar system until all of a sudden we were trapped in a system with a jump inhibitor when the enemies entire fleet shows up, including their flagship. I order all of my five ships to attack their flagship in a desperate last ditch move to destroy them completely. I was devastated as I watched ship after ship of mine slowly being destroyed. My whole fleet was wiped out. Their flagship was on fire and severely crippled but managed to escape, not to mention the ships I lost were all leveled up ships.

Now that's what I'm talking about, classic moments in a game where you just go "Oh crud. This is bad." Imagine having one massive space ship flying through space pinned down by an entire enemy fleet as you desperately try and escape. Or imagine a campaign that you, the user create, as you go about meticulously chasing through systems for the enemies massive capital ship in an attempt to destroy it.

2. THE OPPOSITE "HECK YA MOMENTS": You've spent half the game pouring all of your resources into building on massive space ship, or heck just six or seven massive/really really big space ships. The enemy instead, has spent the game investing in a normal sized fleet with various ships. As they close in on your homeworld, you finish building your massive space ship, deploying it just in time to counter attack the enemy fleet, just barely managing to wipe out the enemy fleet. I also imagine this massive space cruiser would have the capability to produce smaller ships, so perhaps as you go about on a campaign of destruction with this massive ship it would slowly churn out smaller ships enlarging your fleet and a slow modest pace. There is nothing more epic then a huge space battle relying on just one space ship to hold the line.

well, specifics would include:

1) the potential to have a 'real' flagship. honestly, the flagship currently in the game is just another kol battleship. there is no variety with that.
2) each race would have the potential to build one...maybe two if you wanted to get the whole sister ships thing going, but probably one. so balancing issues are pretty level headed if everyone gets one.
3)these ships should be customizable. the game allows for individual vessels (cap ships) to have certain traits they can choose from...the marza, the kol, and everything else has it's own flavor, something i personally would like to see extended to every ship in the game. anywho, the mega would have a wide range of customization options. if specifically, not the ability to customize it's design, at least to influence the traits it can have by providing a huge pallet of technologies/abilities.
4) it would bring in another element of 'let's just have fun' which the devs and the community here made clear was intrinsic and fundamentally important to SINS. if you add something with the ability to customize, and to role-play with, then you increase the replayability of the game as well as the overall hours you can get out of it.

...also, these ships would be either available from the game's start, i.e. in 'last flagship standing mode', or available after much research and resource investment in the 'flagship mode', or totally unavailable in the 'no flagship' mode.

seems a good idea, no?

and i was trying to sound like a newb. i get some kick out of it because it's not how i see myself at all, or how i act generally. i do it cuz it's funny; to me.

See, it wasn too hard to creat a legitamite response

There is no strategy involved with building a megaship. Games would become "wait until whoever gets the megaship first", or "my megaship is better than your megaship" and it'd just be megaship vs megaship any time beyond that point. There is too much power around a megaship that it'd be disrupting to the strategic gameplay.

@Inert
While I'm not a proponent of Megashipsofdoom I don't think adding them to the game would be entirely w/o strategy. IMO it's the old problem of turtling with access to enough resources to reach the highest tech level. Probably the gameplay would have to be balanced and tweaked to avoid the cold war tech race you describe but I think it could be done.

However, I prefer something similar to the approach Silent Shade took...increasing capital ship hp, sp, abilities, etc so as to make them a significant improvement over frigates (while keeping their numbers in check with increases in cost, build time, etc).

Many assumptions are bing made about "megaships". There really should be a design concept dialog opened on the topic. For example I may not look at a megaship as an uberweapon platform but more of a mobile command and control fortress.

Something like the Colossus in Freespace 2 would be cool.

I think if it's implemented right Super Dreadnought (sounds better then Super Mega right?) can add a lot of strategy and provide some spikes to intensify the game at certain point.


The only bad thing is when they make those too powerful while too easy to access and acquire.

Ya.....I prefer the term dreadnought too. It sounds more....spacey.

Spartan, got to agree with you, everyone sees a different dreadnought in their head I guess.

I just imagine a very large floating weapons platform that can operate solely or with support ships, maybe even the capability to produce support ships.

I guess the best design decision would be to release multiple dreadnought type ships, an all weapons based one-I'm thinking death star meets super star destroyer, a flying factory that produces ships, and some type of mobile command station that augments all of your other ships repairing and improving their accuracy.

I guess the really deciding factor is what they think they can squeeze in after a year.

Making the flagship unique from any other built ship would be a step in the right direction, it doesnt even have to be mega if some people think megaships would cause issues(inert). Atm having a flagship that is just a normal ship is quite shallow.

a "unique" experimental ship would be cool. Unique being singular, as in only 1 can be built, and you have to damn near research the whole tree to get it.

I can see it all now... A ship that you must build in parts, that orbits one of your planets and must endure all the hazards that go along with it while it is in development. Each section would have to be added on to another one, so whether you choose to build it once you fully research everything or build it in stages once you finish the last tech research so you can take it out on its "trial run" ASAP is up to you.

A sample simple time table should be something like the following:

Super Structure - 15 minutes
Weapons - 5 - 15 minutes (based on the total number of systems)
Shields - 5 minutes
Critical Systems - 5 - 15 minutes (based on the total number of systems)
Modules (upgrades systems) - 10 - 30 (based on the total number of systems)
Crew training - 5 minutes

I believe such a time table with a continuous drain on empire resources throughout the entire process would really facilitate a sense of grandeur and accomplishment when one of these bad boys is finally commissioned for the player.

also, megaships would be balanced so that they wouldn't actually be the end all be all of the game.

capital ships would be able to challenge them, though with superiority of numbers.

well, for game like this it's actually easier to control the limit of Dreadnought. In most game, it's the matter of chunk it out, and once you can make one, it's a matter of time before you can make a dozen, and we end up with Dreadnought exclusive game.


But from my understanding (don't have beta) SOASE has an unkeep system is it not? (Surprise nobody has mentioned it or I'm getting the wrong impression). It can make Dreadnought an important and must have asset but too much to maintain in large number.

what about a modular megaship? a megaship that is made up from producing smaller component ships that require very particular techs. so you could make them as large as you want (like lego's). perhaps you can even megaships that can build frigates and such (at an increased cost)

@Satt - you are correct there is an upkeep system in place. It however needs to be tweaked from its current configuration as well as the resource system.

@mom - From what I can tell about the current graphic system that type of thing is simply not possible.

@momo - should we add a large cannon at some point too? If so, we must include a subversive identity, probably biomechanical in nature.

But yeah! That sounds like a more plausible idea: a mobile platform with modular capabilities. That is something a mega ship should be, not a bunch of weapons! I don't think it's possible right now, but it's alawys addable (or so they say).

im thinking something like this.
the ships that you build can be used by themselves... but lets say you combine 5 scout frigs and 5 flak frigs and a carrier to create a specialized megaship. technically, it would be like a very tight formation (that would look like 1 ship, and all 11 ships would act as one. the downside is you can't break them apart without penalty. the upside is, less costly ships used properly can defeat larger and more expensive ships.

and i'll personally have to pass on the siege canon

@momo - I remember a couple childrens' TV like that; Voltron is the one only that comes to mind right now however. I simply dont see something like happening. If it would somehow happen then I would almost certainly think it would be some sort of racial ability based system. Additionally the current buff system already accomplishes nearly the same end results minus the visual effects.

inert... are you the inert from cata?

i'm sure momo's suggestion is possible, it'd most likely be a question of how hard would it be to program/design

i wouldn't mind a ship with a pop cap that's a class above capital, but i wouldn't want it to be any more effective against caps than caps are against frigs

i'm personally more interested in specialized ships (not customized, specialized) than i am in adding more or less powerful ones, i sat down and tried to list the things i honestly thought made cata such a fun game for me and i realized that specialization was one of the keys to the dulce dynamics of that beloved game - the ships with special actions (e.g. missilytes, mimics) and frigs with weapons suited for attacking a certain ship class (i.e. multibeams, ion arrays, hives, rammers) made for some fun strategizing and tacticizing

right now the only difference i'm really seeing b/n ships (b/n frigs and caps, and b/n different types of caps, and potentially b/n this megaship and other ships) is simply firepower, and the fire is all the same, we have what, 2 weapons? lasers and autoguns right? oh ya, missiles too i guess, but they all act the same; what a laser can hit, so can an autogun, and for the most part, so can a missile

isnt this just called shitty planning?

anyway I like the idea of a megaship, as long as its not game dominating (and it would simply have to be a unique ship, you cant have multiples of these romping around).

ya, thats what i meant by a pop cap (ship # limit), i think 5 or less caps (just pulled that number out of my hat) should be able to take out the megaship

and

rofl... you beat me to the punch