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Why do ships need to be moving to turn?

Why do ships need to be moving to turn?

AKA Newton for dummies

I was sieging a system with some LRM's the other day. They were blasting away at a gauss cannon just out of it's range, when an enemy ship phased into the system. The LRM's went to chase said ship, but to do so they had to turn around as the ship was almost behind them. To do this they had to move forward right into the gauss cannons range, and they got chewed up pretty bad (didn't lose any but a couple were close to dead).

Don't space ships have side thrusters so they can turn standing still? A car has to move to turn obviously, but why should a spaceship have to? Of course if your moving at a high rate of speed it's going to be difficult to actually start moving in another direction, but just turning the ship should still be pretty easy, it's cancelling your old momentum that's going to be hard. This is taxing my knowledge of physics, anybody nerdier care to explain this to me?
20,846 views 32 replies
Reply #26 Top
Nick, just set your fleet to weapons range only engagement, they won't move unless you tell them to. Add a few LRMs in and tell them to eliminate the turrets (their range is greater than the turrets). Have a few flak frigates/fighters to hold off enemy strike craft and sit and let the enemy come to you, the only problem with this currently is that abilities like the marza's raze planet override this so you might want to disable some of the longer range abilities so that your ships don't disobey the order.
Reply #27 Top
You look back through five day of comments just to criticize how I play the game. Wow.
Reply #28 Top
LOL. i believe that was CONSTRUCTIVE criticism... unless theres something that im missing...
Reply #29 Top
the problem with turning on the spot in battle is that fights are already quite static... which isn't a good thing, really.
Reply #30 Top
If you want to see realistic movement in a space environments done mostly right, check out the human Fighters in Babylon 5, Even the human Capital ships did a good job. (get an inertia less drive and all bets are off)

I would guess it would depend on the tech.
Armor on a large space ship I always found rather funny since the most effective armor typically is the most massive. If you don’t the most massive armor you have to fall back to shear volume or armor. (example high grade Steel, with a depleted uranium core. VERY tough armor, very hard to make, VERY massive. Normal high grade steel armor . . much more practical but still rather massive. Aluminum or composite Aluminum/ceramic Much less massive and much less effective at the same volume – so increase volume (thickness) and increase mass once again . . .
Regardless you just cannot make matter strong enough to resist modern weapons let alone near future weapons. Making armor less and less viable option. Also mass inhibits movement in space the more massive a craft the harder it is to accelerate (note top speed is not effected).
This means ships would be VERY vulnerable! (short of, force fields which are a great sci-fi answer to the armor/mass problem)
With this problem active/passive Defense, stand off weapons, sensors, and maneuverability/distance should play a big role.

We are seeing this with current naval developments now. Ships do not want to get close enough to see each other . . that is insane! One hit could cripple a ship. So the game of Hiding, and finding at max range . . keeping on the edge of the reliable kill range, getting the first shot off and getting the first kill. And if it comes to counter fire you must be too hard to hit, run, or stop it from hitting you. With just enough armor to get away if hit with a glancing shot.

Given even current tech ships could easily detect and start shooting 1000s of miles away.
At 7,926.41 miles (the diameter of the earth) a fighter/missile with a ~2 Meter kill zone would have to jink at >1g acceleration in constant random directions perpendicular to the direction of t he shooting ship to dodge a laser shot. (not too bad but it would have to be constant and this is ageist a weapon you can’t anticipate to see the incoming shots . . . luck will play a big role at even this distance)
At 500 miles you need >20g to miss by less then a meter. (splat if you are human, and unlikely if a missile since this dodging needs to be done totally randomly, constantly at a acceleration reaching the normal acceleration of the forward motion of the missile )
A fast gauss weapon only 0.0016g jink is needed do doge (matter is just too slow, even Fast matter ). . BUT a gauss weapon with current tech could hit an orbiting station/ship in a different Orbit! Just as long as it’s movement is consistent. And the effects devastating!

As you see weapons will be have totally differently in space ranges become extreme, get too close and it becomes impossible to miss. Energy weapons get crazy accuracy due to next to instant Time to target. Projectile weapons have effectively unlimited rage as long as the target follows a constant path. Missiles become deadly only if they can saturate the defenses or can deploy a stand off warhead before they get in guaranteed kill zone. Fighters and Bombers become (like today) just mobile weapons platforms and need to also fire stand off weapons.

Sorry for the long post . . .I get going . . as I have said before I have done all of the math in my own sim game. and it take a bit for Hollywood conventions to be unlearned . . . starwars = WWII, Star trek = we can do it because that black box says we can . .

“it just improves the chances of your ships colliding with each other”
Remember space is vary vary big “ships colliding with each other” is a rather minor possibility . . (changes are none of the ships in a battle group would be anything but small dots from a “porthole” ) Scale and the 3rd dimension tends to throw people.
Reply #31 Top
I believe Ironclad is discussing this topic internally. I tend to agree with the argument that when ships move larger distances they should turn as it is now, but if they're just swinging their guns to bare on a target within range, that they should swivel in-place.
Reply #32 Top
Funny thing is, the ships CAN turn without moving in this game. Use a capital ship ability that targets one enemy ship, and your capital ship will turn towards the target.

There have been a few times that I retreated by using my capital ship's ability on an enemy ship behind it just to get it to turn instead of making a moon-sized arc, then cancelled the ability and ran.