New kind of situation that I found with culture conquest

Agree.

This should also give an incentive to bombard a planet/to defend it against bombardment.

Currently it's not a big loss if your planet is killed, as long as you have the structures there (and don't need anything new to build).

Of course you lose the current improvements you've built, but on asteroids this is no big deal (or on other undeveloped worlds).

Great idea. Will look into this one.

I dont like the idea, as it removes the ability for someone to counter attack while you attempt to clean up. although I agree that there should be some way of creating a "provisionary" slot for a temporary time.

I think they're talking about something much like fighters who loose their carrier -- they're on a countdown, and eventually go "boom", but they do stick around for a (long) while.

the point remains however that being attacked on a planetary level is hard to counter, no reason to make that profit dissapear

especially, going back to that old issue of pseudo-3-D movement, if the planet can be insta-bombed without much issue. also, what if somebody pierces with enough bombers to kill your planet despite orbital weapons and a shield? its not a well thought out idea IMO. there should be another way.

I like the idea of degrading structures as long as they don't degrade as fast as fighters. You should have a chance at recapturing the planet before your structures go kabloomy.

Um, bombers can't hit planets, alas... Unless you mean bombardment frigates?

alas, they bomb. alas, they are bombers.

Bombers are fighters, planet bombers are planet bombers.

It would cost a lot of money to build enough planet bombers to take out a well defended planet. If the person wants to waste that much money, let them, and take the planet back with the big fleet you built instead.

I've never tried this, but have you actually managed to take out a well defended planet with just planet bombers before? I mean, without crippling your fleet.

If you have then that's a major balance issue you should report to the devs.

actually its quite easy if the place isnt defended well, but even if it is its as simple as going up and over.

assuming the fleet is anywhere nearby, assuming you made a fleet, assuming you didnt spend all of your money on the defenses which are now degrading etc. etc.

and those arent big assumptions either, do you see the issue yet? its as simple as killing the planet and then bringing in a small elite force behind it and you've just won with minimal casualties (that could easily be replaced).

What do you mean by that? My bombers would make short work of something anywhere in the system.

Well, this is the issue. It's not that simple to kill a well defended planet. (Of course against the AI it's simple, but actually anything against the AI is simple. )

There are planetary shield generators which could spoil your bombing. (Shield generators are easily defended with gauss cannons.)

And if your enemy doesn't has a fleet there capable of killing your siege frigates, well, his fault for just relying on his gauss cannons imho.

Of course this needs balancing against bombardment damage/speed of frigates and capitals, but it would act a good tactical option.

But you're right in one point. We need the ability to place structures in 3d for this. Some gauss cannons on the north and south pole of a planet are needed against small fleets which try to exploit the positioning of your gauss cannons.

Against heavily defended enemy planets you could try to kill their defenses first and then kill the planet without interference, or you could try to kill the planet first and then prevent the enemy from recolonizing while his defenses are still online.



Well, my flak frigates would make short work of your bombers.

True, but if you have enough flak frigates to pull that off, and the bombers, you probably have a full-up fleet that'd cut through the defenses anyway.

Not necessary so. 5 flaks plus 5 siege frigates are able to kill a planet defended with up to 4 hangars (not upgraded planets, they take too long with just 5 siege frigates), provided the enemy doesn't has any ships there. (Against the AI for example.) Gauss cannons are irrelevant since you can avoid them.

But if you have a single Kol there, those flaks are quite fast space dust and the siege frigates will follow soon. Some Cobalts could do the same job.

But imho it's a moot point, most of the time, anyway. Since you usually have a small fleet on your front line planet anyway. (At least I have.)

Let me rephrase: You probably have a full up fleet because if you sent those in unsupported you deserve what happens to you when my fleet arrives. Just like you suggested

That's too true. I think it would be a good idea to have another type of cannon that shoots missiles with a much larger range, but dies relatively easily when attacked, so you could have those defended with gause cannons to protect yourself. This would make an incentive to actually attack fly into the gause cannons range to kill the missile-cannons so you don't get sniped. As long as it's balanced so that they;re not like super long range snipers that can kill anything before it gets into range, maybe make them worth 2 tactical slots as well.

That would be similar to having missile frigates in your group, they're powerful & long range, but die in two seconds if they're attacked.

I'm sure if I sent 20 or so your bombers wouldnt be able to do bunk.

again, assuming there isnt a mobile fleet there. which is NOT a big assumption.

are not absolute, would only slow me down.

do you have a fleet at every one of your outlying planets? I doubt it.
especially on larger maps.

*bow*
and then this really wouldnt be an issue.

20 or so what? Flak frigates? Sure. Bombardment frigates? No way. Bombarding a planet takes a long time. Even without shield generators.

i had a situation similar to this in an when this beta first came out.

i had a dead asteroid with full defenses. the pirates attacked ignored the defenses killed the planet. my ally came in and colonized the dead asteroid. thus the planet was the allies and the defenses were mine.

it takes no longer than 2, 3 minutes with a few siege frigs, it takes at least 30 seconds for a group of 4 bombers to kill a frig on their own. so I lose 4 siege frigs, you lose an entire investment of gauss cannons, logistic structure, a planet upgrade series and hangers etc.

oh yeah, thats a fair trade.

then either turn on him or destroy your own defences, dont make it so that there is a really cheap-and-quick way to kill a planet without a struggle.

Hmm, I'm really split between the two options.

On one hand, having a planet in enemy space, surrounded by enemy defenses and unable to build anything sucks.

On the other, being able to kill a whole system worth of defenses and shipyards be bombing the planet also sucks.

so how about this: When you conquer a planet through culture or that TEC uber tech, simply give the new owner control of half(or a certain percentage) of the orbitals. It makes sense, because the whole system is affected by the superior culture, they ALL defect, not just the surface population.

I have to ask, what will happen to repair yards?

I usually build 2-3 repair yards and a huge clump of defenses. If the repair yards continue to acrue antimatter, they could prevent the structure deteroration altogether, or at least prolong it to a ridiculous extent. With just one yard, eventually the repair yard itself will die, but with two they can repair each other.

That would be called nice planning on your part.

Structure decay wouldn't be there just so you can destroy the enemy planet and woosh, all enemy defenses are dead. It would be more of a slower disintegration of the structure (lack of maintenance, etc. story wise ) which helps the attacker a bit and makes defending the actual planet, instead of only the structures around it, a higher priority.

At least, that's how I see how this mechanism should work.