Lost my reply so I won't bother retyping it all. Just bear in mind I've not been forthcoming in information about myself, so how could you possibly know anything of me? Anyway. I've not had reason to unhide such folders since I just make them visible, and I have made shortcuts to them (a while ago, fyi), but my problem solved itself with an unknown change I made shortly after the whole issue appeared. But I also never accessed the folder afterwards, so I never knew. (Never had a reason, and why tempt fate?) I didn't want to troubleshoot an unknown problem, because the last time I did so it took a full 7 reformats and reinstallations of XP to pinpoint both SpeechTools and .NET as the culprit.

My point is that I hate being told by Micro$haft that "Here's how your system is going to be, pal" when there's a proverbial gun pointed at my head. That is why I won't buy Vista, oh and the thirty percent reduction in system performance might be a key factor in there too....

Your point, that running out of space on your primary partition is the user's fault (PEBKAC) is completely valid as well. But then again, not everyone is a power user, and most are competent enough to know how to install what they want and configure things into a manner that they work well. Maybe not the absolute most optimal configuration, or the best for the lifespan of the system.

And I actually know most of the above you provided, excepting that you could change the location of that system directory during the install time. But that is somewhat understandable, seeing that until now there was no reason to even think of it unless you were writing a system backup utility. I was being lazy and making you do the explaining, testing if it was bluster or not. Your writing is quite poor and so it is hard to tell what is what -- hence the test.

Your repeated assumptions about myself knowing nothing of me, my skills, industry, and combining your own preconceived notions about the average Joe on the 'net isn't critical thinking. That's paving a rut and driving circles within your own intellect, leading yourself in that former path of critical thinking. Your own posts would get a better response from me either with a better attitude, instead of the onerous assumption that you actually are better (whether you are or not doesn't matter), or with a bit less arrogance. Because if you are competent you don't need an attitude to prove it as it will be evidenced by your responses in the subject matters you are competent in. The arrogance just makes you insufferable.

Again, we will not pass certification with that, so it's a no go.  There are literally tens of thousands of dollars on the line here. We're not going to screw around with this gang, so quit asking.   

Complain to Microsoft if you want the system changed. I've heard some people say you can setup Windows to do some kind of funky HD redirect to get around it, but that's on the user, not us.

 

really?... MS not only specifies where things go but they forbid the developer for allowing the player to change that location in settings?


Is there a list of these requirements posted somewhere on the internet?


Because if I do want to protest this... and I do... then I need to put it on Digg or something to light a fire under MS's cheeks.


This whole Games for windows champaign is ill conceived to begin with... MS has only hurt their brand by trying to control things. The strength of windows has always been the diversity of programs and hardware it could work with... it's just so stupid.


please, if you have a link to MS's standards for developers to pass the GFW cert I'd really like to see it.

You could mail them yourself and ask for it

I dont see a problem with IC and ST wanna earn some more cash, with the "Games for Windows" option.
It actualy helps alot, as said above, if the game gets the logo it will be in the GFW area. So if its easier to spot means more ppl. More ppl means more talk. More talk means more ppl.. ect ect.

Personally i dont care where its put, as long as i can find it

That info is under NDA.

We will talk to the GFW people (again), but I very much doubt they're going to let us change anything. Microsoft is quite firm on this stuff.

"Yes, all the little hidden traps and secrets are getting dug up" . . like the fact that MS is a attempt by aliens to control the populous . . or that the they have brain washed people into buying a OS that does not work and used there phasers on anyone that tried to stop them.

The fact is NO new OS sells well. People (or companies) do not want to upgrade for a host of reasons . . (older systems, legacy programs, compatibility, cost, homogenous data centers or work sites, laziness, fear, and propaganda)
Heck SUN micro has a majority of its customers stubbornly not wanting to move from S8 or the more adventurous S9 . . and S10 has been out for some time . .and S11 is a long way to being complete.
OSX was a flop at first . .buggy and incompatible to the extreme. The Various Linuxes are all aver the place . .sum are getting bloated and slow and are having bigger security problems as they are getting more main stream.
Security, Virus and bug problems . . are NOT MS only problems . . . though propaganda says otherwise (apple and Linux sales will say they have no security or Virus problems and only minor bugs . . . Laughable and a out right LIE. Also MS is getting bashed for FINALLY taking security more seriously (not something a normal user understands and often gets annoyed at)
The problem with MS is the aggressive business techniques and the fact it has gotten caught more then once. Other companies are in the same anti trust boat (though not publicized 1/8 as much) Rambus, Intel, apple, Google, and IBM . . . also there are other companies that are using a few of MS’s tactics now to great effect but have not been . . . noticed yet (sadly my CO may be one of them)
The sad fact is that other OS’s are starting to feel what they have wrought going after MS . . they are having problems bundling even basic apps with there OS’s, Security is harder then they think when the focus of hackers changes to them, the realization the basic user is clueless and feature hungry and that hand holding them requires lots of code and bloat . . and the advanced user is fickle and complains about catering to the majority of the basic users and makeing "there" OS slow and dumb. Etc etc . . .

Reducing any of this to a black and white they are “evil” or bad and the others are Good . . is short sighted and very naive. . .

So not only are their requirements rediculous (my opinion) but they also don't want anyone outside of the developers to know how rediculious those requirements are (also my opinion)...


I'll look around on the net for the requirements... I'm sure it's leaked out somewhere.

Nice personal dig, Well I am glad to pass your test . . . since I am typing this while testing a dynamic fault reporting and repair system . 2 screens 2 keyboards it is not a easy thing, and I am sorry I do not meet your typing requirements . .

I will be sure to "fix" my bad attitude
People seem to like using the word "arrogance" nowadays in a personal rebuttal attack when loosing a argument with someone that may have a higher academic knowledge on a subject . . I find that amusing . . . - you may have made in into the book.


Funny, that I can only respond to what you have typed and you have supported you lack of knowledge on some these points and self proclaimed laziness. I made no assumptions beyond that.


Need I know more? Your actions are telling I do not need to know personal info. This is clearly a novice way of troubleshooting (no offence, novice <> moron, as you seem to think). I help people with these problems . . just as a mechanic helps me with my car problems. The mechanic is the expert in that case and I am the novice. You seem to find it a offence
Also the average Joe does not know these things (computer wise) Having supported 100s of users at various pass jobs . . I have found there supreme ignorance on the working of a computer amazing and a fact. (this does not mean they are dumb, that means they do not have computer skills) There are entire web sites dedicated to clueless computer users. Critical thinking - well, yes my personal opinion is a great majority of people do not use much Critical thinking in there every day lives . . . I belong to an organization that promotes it.


I may have given too much “attitude” but then look at yours and other posts . . people here are spouting off on things they do not fully understand, misunderstand or have been misrepresented to them. . . this is not attitude? Can’t I be annoyed at people perpetuating falsehoods and confusion?
PS . . 30% performance reduction in vista? Wow . . what dribble . .more like ~.08% to .34% with the release candidate (possibly you missed the decimal place) . .the worse was ~1-2% and mainly with programs with compatibility problems. Just after release some programs/games really took a hit (mainly poor drivers). But now it is hardly an issue. . RC1 will see a massive improvement (as it always does)

If you have a problem with the file location . . . well that is valid . . .I agree that on XP that is a problem. But the rest of the bluster here over MS is mostly uninformed regurgitation of poorly written and venomous news and blogs. MS is a competitor, Windows is a competing OS to ours . . We strip it down and dissect it . .We know how it works, the good and bad points . . we also respect MS and there products (though the public face is to the contrary - it is all propaganda! It is all business)

PS, you may want to look at other operating systems closer . . . many force all user files and settings to a common directory and keep the program packages separate . . . Windows was lazy on this in the past, they let what ever the programmers wanted rule . . it made for conflicting “standards”, bad programming, security problems, and confusion . . . now they are attempting to fix it (a bit ham handedly, but that IS there way) and people freak . . . . it would be funny if not so sad . . .

My biggest issue with the new standard is that this stuff (in XP at least) is pointed to a hidden directory. That's just not cool, as most users won't be able to find the directory if they need to. If we can do some kind of redirect (with the user's consent/action) then we will.

Let's see. I go to the control panel, click on add/remove program, find the problem program from the list, click "Change/remove program".... And nothing happens.

I go to the problem's directory, look for an Uninst or unwise, or setup... Nada. Nothing there.


And no, I do not just delete program folders unless I have no other option. I do in fact know how to properly uninstall a program, and then I know how to do it the hard way. I prefer to do it the proper way, but sometimes this damn computer does not let me.

Ta Erog, Microsoft did make some huge blunders in designing the OS. Their "security" protocols for hardware, for example, are utterly ridiculous. Specifically, (unless this has been changed) you have to get approval from Hollywood movie companies for each driver before it can be "OK"'d by MS to work with Vista (without Vista degrading the audio/video quality outputs). That right there is beyond stupid. Another thing was on potential hardware weak points -- assuming I understood the section correctly, the places where manufacturers add/remove stuff to cards were considered invitations to piracy; any card with them wouldn't be approved period.

Now, that said, some of the other "problems" with the OS really boil down to bad programming on the part of program developers. For example, the "tilt bits" that it uses to make sure the video card (and associated functions) are working correctly wouldn't be much of a problem if programs didn't crash when the soft reset went through to correct the error. Fix the programs demanding constant access to the video (so all the player sees is a "blip") and you fix the problem -- and end up with a more stable, less likely to crash system.

And, of course, there's the fact that many programmers are lazy and stupid about coding, so that their programs can't utilize more than 2GB's of memory even if its available via the 3GB switch or a 64 bit OS... (Thankfully, some programs can handle that, such as Supreme Commander with Madboris's "fix"!)

Edit:

To clarify, while MS isn't the personification of all evil (though they can come close sometimes...) they still aren't angles, and some of their stuff is pure stupid. But a lot of "their" problems are related to other people being lazy, too.

"My biggest issue with the new standard is that this stuff (in XP at least) is pointed to a hidden directory. That's just not cool, as most users won't be able to find the directory if they need to. If we can do some kind of redirect (with the user's consent/action) then we will."

Yes, for XP (like I already said) that is a problem . .

could a simple shortcut in your startmenu be a simple fix? that should not be too bad.

Ron Lugge . . I agree! (I never said to the other wise?!? - I did say we "Dissect" there OS's when they come out? I am not a advocate - I just can't stand falsehoods that are said so many times they become believed myths)
They have made more errors then most of you will ever know . . . but then again they are not alone not by a long shot!. There is not a commercial OS out there that does not have massive flaws, inconsistencies, and bad programming. . . . how much of this comes to light, how much becomes a real problem, and how much it gets publicized makes ALL of the difference. If you are in the lime light all of your flaws are seen.

I am glad all of the incarnations of Windows are still “consumer” grade! Windows server - ha, a joke, they need to stick to workstations. It makes less creditable server competition for US - though as a home computer MS and Apple have the market, becouse here they ARE better - we don't hand hold users much . But they are getting better not worse, consumers are just not used to the changes they need to make to make a better product. . some seem dumb but have a good long term goal . . and some . . or just dumb . . and that is also normal.

The fact that telling the truth about this is seen as some Defense of MS and how it turns into a nasty argument shows the level of propaganda people are swallowing . . .

“To clarify, while MS isn't the personification of all evil (though they can come close sometimes...) they still aren't angles, and some of their stuff is pure stupid. But a lot of "their" problems are related to other people being lazy, too.”
I could not agree more! And would add that the very use of the terms “evil” “angles” degenerate any real discussion into some quasi-religious faith based dribble that has no basis in reality. . . . . Have you seen the Apple commercials? Funny but Apple vs PC is a religious fight . . that is total and utter lies . . I have had sales people and users lie to my face about there systems and OS (on both sides) to make the sale or convert. . but if they say it enough and make it look cool enough and people will . . .BELIEVE anything (I guess some Mac owners have short memories some of the OS upgrades for them have been nasty far beyond any vista problems)

there are too many hidden files in windows as is... the only files I'm ok with hiding are a few in the root C: drive that are required for booting. Otherwise, I get to hide things... other people do not. It's my damn computer. In the same way no bought V chiped Intel processors or would buy cars that shut off if the police pressed a button... I'm not cool with third parties deciding what happens with my system. I bought an MS product. I am a customer... not their bitch.



By the way... I'm playing Halo 2 on my XP machine... I bought it and then downloaded the crack that lets you play it on XP.

Suck it MS. Thus far the only real reason to upgrade to Vista shattered.

Have not used a Linux or Unix OS before? Lots of "dot" files and directories(hidden) and a bunch in your own home dir . (read 100s). I see no one complaining there. Max OS’s hide all sorts of files.
Also you don't run as root (in normal operations) in these OS's because of the massive damage you can do or what other programs could do with that level of access . . so as a user you are very limited on what you can "see" and manipulate . and only escalate when needed .
In widows everyone runs as a Admin . . and wonder why they have security problems? Or then they delete important files . . there is a reason they are hidden!

there is a bit of a double standard . hypocritical . or at minimum ignorance. Being hidden is only a file attribute and can be easily changed . . though most people should leave them alone . . now in this case they are forced to go there . . . this is bad for the normal user on XP . . but then again from there POV you should not be using it anyway . . . is t his fair . . no . . but with people lining up for the newest cell phone . on a whim. some costing as much as a cheap desktop PC . . can you understand why they may be confused why people just do not go out and get the newer OS? His holds try for many more products then just software . . is it right? Well in a BUY BUY BUY the new neet-O-keen capitalistic society . . . it is at least understandable. .

So . .Yes they are strong arming people to upgrade . . . We wish we could that also since our customers are mostly 2 versions back?! it is a pain supporting them.

in my experience, people that don't know much about computers are LESS likely to delete important files... unless they want to break the computer.


Keep the core OS in Windows directory... delete anything out side of that minus a few hidden files in the root directory and the computer should still boot and operate correctly. There is no need to go about hiding application files. Especially when most of them should be in the application installation directory to begin with...

Actually, I used the term "evil" and "angel" in the non-religious sense. Angels, while they originated as a religious icon, have become so intertwined with the concept of "good" that saying that someone is not an angel has nothing to do with religion, just with them not being all that good.

Having Worked in a various MIS jobs . . . I find that to be not the case . . while there are some that are paranoid to touch/delete anything . . there are a greater % of people that "think" they know what they are doing and F the system up good thinking all the time they "know" what they are doing . . (so user rights and hidden files tend to stop most IF set up correctly) Another good reason to put all USER files in one place and only allow them to touch those files . . if they go mucking about in the OS or program dirs they will mess them up 9 time out of 10.


not really because of the religious baggage those words have, you evoke a "religious sense" just by using those terms . . also angel has different meanings in each of the 3 religions that use them and no meanings for the religions that do not . .
Also Evil mean effectively what ever is "bad" for THAT religion and that could be quite different from what you assume it means and is in NO way universal. People get stuck thinking religious = there religion. and at this time this tends to mean the current monopoly of the 3 main monotheistic religions . . that is very short sited and one of t he main causes for misunderstanding and strife between religions throughout the ages. Religion in general is quite selfish with there own point of view.

Perhaps for some people, but many use the terms in the non-religious form. "I'm no angel" doesn't refer to any specific religions own "angel", but rather to the person not being perfect, or in fact all that great a person. And while evil tends to be defined by various religions, the basic concept isn't actually religious: morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked.

They can be used, as you say, "non-religiously" but that definition and connotation is religious and will taken as a religious statement.
Also defining angel as "good" is not even that valid . . since one form is a "messenger" with no "good" or "bad" association - just a minor job. another form are effectively minor deities "considered good" by association with the chief benefactor God that does "good" things. To even very "bad" fallen angels and the like, still angels but gone bad. Also quite a few religions do not have any analog to angels (unless you want to see them as quasi-deities - which the monotheists do not)

And Evil is NOT universal and never has been (and that goes for morally also). One religions evil can be another’s good.
See the current synonyms - Sin, wickedness, vice . . These also have religious subtext. Morally/immorality unfortunately now has a religious overtone because most current religious people think morally IS entirely religion based and can come only from "there" religion . . which is a mistake since it is societal element that can have religious aspects or equally none. (all documented quite well in history)

Look close at human history and cultural anthropology. You will find some very interesting things . . what is taboo for a society does not mean it is for another and the same thing could be evil or not depending on what religious perspective you look at regardless of the societies laws and taboos . . It just can not be assumed to be the same!

Quite an interesting subject but quite off topic . . . .sorry

TA, while the words may carry religious connotation "I'm no angel" is not automatically a religious statement. Its an idiom, and all the argueing in the world can't change that fact.

how was this issue resolved?... I must have missed that...

Save games are a lot smaller these days -- compressed or optimized, I don't know which. And they don't bother to save stats with most save games, either.

so how much space do they consume in hidden folders?

Eh, half a gig to two gigish per save. For smaller maps.