Flea if you've read my posts (of which there are way many more than are worth my time) why are you spreading around the vast odor of ignorance? if the Devs think that the vasari are underpowered, and agree with multi and her ilk then it will be fixed CERTAINLY because there has been enough whining about it. If they agree with me, then there is again NO point to spread this someplace where its just going to clutter. we have two threads arguing the point, stick it somewhere there

now I may have an odd way of showing it, but that was intended as a helpful comment, if somewhat a little arrogant. I sure as hell have not seen you around enough to know that you are anything but a drifting game grazer, let alone someone active in the betas.

you guys cling desperately to the "should"s and ignore the "is"s, and thats why you think they're underpowered when they are quite the opposite.


now back to some RELEVANT topics, like why are the pirates so strong again? they have begun spewing out 50 unit fleets every few minutes once again. I'm concerned the AI might be outmatched... again.

not teh hard AI, taht can hold its own, but the normal and easy...

Wow, you didn't even read my post(s)! Not even once! Stop trolling where I have perfectly adequate reason to echo my complaints.

I never said the Vasari are underpowered EXCEPT in the early game economy, where research for competency is so costly.

My posts have been about the lack of consistency, IE agreement, between the story posted on the website and the implementation of the race. My other complaint was about the 100% cloning of roles of ships, buildings, and techs; only skills and weapons "styles" differ.

I paid for the game in a preorder and have a right to give my input.

If anything I've been 100% concise and haven't whined once, unlike your repeated peevishness.

Considering the attitude and topicality of many threads around here, can you blame me? I got in on beta 3 and played quietly to myself for awhile -- I wasn't going to spam feedback when others already voiced my concerns. I don't hang out at sites to be stressed out by people like you. And I certainly don't pay to have my input denied by someone who isn't even a member of the corporation that I paid.

Let me quote myself. I don't see a SINGLE reason why you'd explode like you did. So stop spamming your "helpful" feedback to someone else's feedback. I'm not bloating the thread, you are! Your two discussion threads are already so visible that a blind, lame rat couldn't help but stumble into them.

I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the diversity between the factions and how each faction harbors unique abilities. Just awesome, always love games with diversity and not just units with a different look and name with the same abilities. Though I haven't played enough of Beta 4 yet to comment on the balance, but so far it seems like both factions are fairly matched. The changes to the various parts of the game such as extractors.. awesome.

I'm ending this now
Fleas, all you need to know is that there are absolutely positively NO inconsistancies between the lore and the game, whats inconsistant is what the broad player base assumed was going to be the style of the vasari.

if thats our only point of disagreement, this thread can get back to normal.

You might want to recognize that the game is using symbology, same as almost every other game to date...

Not perfecting enemy technology: learning from it! Stealing and reverse engineering it (crudely in comparison!) doesn't take all that long, and learning the basics about warfare is fairly easy... if you live long enough. And there were a lot of trader worlds to trade for knowledge.



Yes, but just because you want to read something out of them doesn't mean its actually there. Superior technology is not the same thing as being able to take more damage, for example. Lets compare a modern naval force to a WW2 era force. The ability to endure damage has probably increased a little, but thats pretty much negligible. What has increased -- tremendously! -- is our ability to deal damage at a distance (missiles, fighters, radar, etc etc) and to a more limited degree prevent damage (stealth, Phalanx cannons, etc etc).

On top of that, the whole "primitive" card doesn't mean what most people think it does -- first off, its been ten years of war for the TEC, starting out as a loosing war. They've learned, they've developed! On the second hand, I'm personally convinced that there was a certain degree of arrogance involved -- take a look at the whole "New World" filled with "savages" BS that the Europeans put out.

*puts Ron's head on a flag and waves it around*
all hail, all hail!

or perhaps they are nuking specific sites, not indescriminately

orbital bombardment from star wars comes to mind...

Hey, I like my head right where it is.

And I have been supporting you all along, no need to make a big deal of it. ./blush

I'm just happy that its extensive vocal support for once, I've gotten tons of halfhearted cheering, but cheering from the sidelines doesnt help when the tigers are trying to gut you.

Well, I guess I'm sorry I have work, school, and family commitments then.

This whole conversation could be constructive if people were less ANTI-Sins or PRO-Sins. Remember that its all opinions. It's annoying to read people always defending Sins or destroyings people ideas. There is no perfect games and the discussion we all have on these boards should help the devs improve the games. They are intelligent enough to know what is a good point/idea and what is not.

My two cents.

Good thing I come along to poke at Sins as much as support it. Like now:

Culture is way overpowered. I ordered the construction of a culture center when the enemies culture line was less than halfway to my world; it wasn't even 50% complete when the planet flipped. That is way too fast.

Edit: Also, in addition to the "AI takes over user quits" mechanic, this game needs a "I surrender; you win I loose" mechanic. Desperately.

Yea, the culture in that game was pretty wack. It moved REALLY fast. I had barely finished building the hub and the line was almost instantly 25% of the way to ron's planet. And that was only with the first culture tech.

And later, his culture gave me a serious wammy. His 3 culture centers next door managed to knock over my planet in a minute flat despite the 2 culture centers I had there.

Edit:
And for the record, I didn't quit. Game crashed hard. Had to flip the power switch to get my comp back.

OUCH! Did you get a minidump? Or anything? (Edit: And given the fact that I had you beat... was there anything you felt you had left to counter me with, or was it time for a surrender?)

Some players here are... emphatically... shouting down valid concerns, using strawmen and irrelevancies. I think I'll exit the useless discussion on these boards and hope that the devs will consider all feedback given as it is.

surrender option isnt bad. or I think some1 had the idea of an empire breaking apart at a certai point and its territories being allocated to the remaining players. finishing off can be a bit tiring.



hm, seems I have to take much more care about culture in here. if what you say is true, then its really too extreme.

always be vocal, else you never get what you want! and most certainly never reach a middle ground, as is usually the norm.

Could be. It's still very annoying and destroys constructive discussions very fast.

Especially when people go an a hyperbole, it achieves nothing but just manages to annoy people.

Schod. Just because you think you are right does not neccessarily equate to you Being right.

I agree with you that allot of people who say under/over powered just need to play it out and think more. But your constant barrages of 'I'm right' 'Read This' are about as useful as cat litter.

The Vasari are too similar for those of us who want a balance system based on uniqueness, IE Warcraft III and StarCraft models. Sins races at the moment use the same method for building, exploring, colonizing, and gathering resources, and the two races value resources the same way. The Vasari for an example, would probably rely allot less on credits and more on metal, what with their captured TEC Slave Labor.

Other games use the clone balance system, this is what has been applied, thats not to say 'carbon copy' you can do very different things, but the basic foundations of the races are clones of each other, just like Sup-Com, CnC (any of them) and 90% of all other RTS games.

When you bomb a world, I was under the impression you were only targeting government infrastructure and personnel. I didn't think your forces were turning the planet into a radioactive wasteland.

Of course, this theory would be more plausible if the game graphics didn't use these 1000 km high mushroom clouds for every bomb hit. Man, those aren't nukes, those are freakin 1 ton antimatter bombs.

when their argument came down to whether or not I was right, I do need to make it a solid fact Gaunt, excuse me for defending my argument

I use the "I'm right" routine only when people are using the "your wrong" routine, which is what happened here.

those things are minor differences, again people are simply too atatched to the idea of races needing to gather resources or use resources differently, listen go look at blair's post, he explains every reason why they avoided that.

just keep in mind you are too focused on the microtic elements of the system to notice the major differences.

we gotz to have our shiny lights!

No, not strawmen and irrelevancies -- even though its a clear mis-read of the lore, those who want a "protoss-style" Vasari are hardly engaging in straw men when calling on that mis-reading. Or irrelevancies.

And while I definitely agree that Schod needs to tone down his rhetoric just a bit... (ok, more than a bit -- oh, and dropping all the "I'm right, your wrong, you idiot!" stuff would probably help him look mature and make his point better than he is doing right now ) the problem isn't that he's too loud, its that we're having a nice spirited discussion -- with all the fun that entails.

I don't understand why some people don't like the Vasari lasers (thin beam that lasts for a split second). They look a lot more like lasers than those beam bullets the TEC uses. In fact, I would prefer it if TEC ship lasers were more like the Vasari's.

That said, what exactly are those greenish Vasari crescents supposed to be?

the lasers should just have a split second longer staytime, as it is I have a better time seeing lightning strike.

I like it as is. However, I would like it just as much with a X2 duration.

The points I was trying to make:

I do not feel the Vasari are alien, as they function too much like the TEC. Their mode would perhaps be suitable for the Advent, as they come from the same stem but would branch out into a different style. The Vasari who have had no contact with humans at all until 10 years ago, though, I would expect and prefer to be radically different. I don't care all that much if they turn into either Protoss, Zerg, Minbari, Zoq-Fot-Pik or Borg, as long as they don't turn into humans.

I would probably be more accepting of the current state if I hadn't read the lore and got expectations from it. If there was an indication of commonplace influence between the different races over time, like in GalCiv1+2, the striking similarities would be more natural. The lore does not match how the game works.

---------

On an entirely different matter, the TEC technology giving extra logistic building points is overpowered. Dead asteroids can suddenly support any two of the culture/trade/refinery structures. Perhaps a halving of the effect would be suitable, in addition to not affecting dead asteroids, so you can put one extra such building on all your populated planets.