Oopsie, I stand corrected. Confuzzled, I got



While I realize you're not going to give away much info until it's ready, will some/all of these changes be in the first patch, or is your first patch focused on other things?

Can't say yet until I touch base with IC (working on production stuff atm).

Nice chat today Yarlen, also with Craig <3

Hope once more returns to SINS!

I hope my official time line suggestion gets implemented!

I need to quit work or something. I miss all the good stuff on IRC



Thanks

Oh Noes!

That's what I would have requested.

--------

On a bit more serious note, how high are the chances for slight changes in the economic and resource model of the Vasari?

For example the Vasari refinery could be changed to work as a resource generator without the trading ships. It wouldn't be a big change in gameplay (it would generate metal/crystal with an average rate compared to TEC refineries, or depending on the available asteroids it would just up their resource production?) but it would make the TEC and the Vasari more unique by presentation and "feeling".

Basically I'm speaking about changes which wouldn't have very large impacts on fundamental gameplay, but would be things that make the races feel more different, even in the basics and in the early game.

AN expansion on that idea- and it wouldn't change anything for the player.

The refinery would only affect the planet it is built with, and instead of ships it would send out nano-machine clouds to the asteroids, upping production significantly, hell maybe the refinery could even move itself from asteroid to asteroid, that would

A. Look Cool and feel different.

B. Mathematically could do the exact same thing the TEC refinery does

C. Changes NO gameplay, as the Refinery 'tactic' is just a matter of Build and forget.

oh I hope the devs dont give into the "I dont know how to play this, make it simplerz!" pressure. I'm fine with nominal shifting of strength and tech levels and I'm certainly not against making the teams more diverse, but if they make the vasari as OP and 1-dimensional and (frankly) simple (cough) as many people on this board seem to favor, then I may have to reconsider my relationship with this game. this game has been too much of a step forward for the strategy game industry to be ruined by complaining within the first week of the new races.

or more simply: if too much ingenuity gets taken out for the quipping and whining going around these boards, I may consider going to. I'm simply not up to having a game of "TEC, TEC 2.0 and TEC 3.0"

That's the way it's now.

Daton you're in a league all your own, most people here acknowledge the differences as significant, but not what they expected. I'm not explaining this to you again.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.   

It's funny that you don't want the dev's to give in to the requests of others, but then YOU threaten to leave if they listen to anyone but you.

The hypocrisy of your arguements not withstanding, you've been nothing but a constant source of insults and abuse on these boards and would not be missed.

Nobody is asking for that. Please stop looking at this issues so one dimensionally.

Some people are asking to make individual Vasari ships stronger but less numerous, while other people (like me) are asking to make the Vasari more different from the TEC by changing certain parts of the Vasari which are either identical or similar to the TEC.

Nobody has asked "to make it simplerz!" in all the posts I've read on this board. Most of them actually asked for more diversification, which is the opposite of making stuff "simpler".

The devs stated well, Blair Frazer did IIRC that they made the races similar in lower levels on purpose, to make the beginning easier and to have complexity coming later (with higher research and levels of capital ships). What some of us are asking for (or whishing for) is to not make the races similar at the beginning.

Also the focus some want on more power for the Vasari then just agility doesn't make the game "easierz", it would just make them different with no influence on the need for skill and proper tactics (if they get balanced right of course).



Come on. Nobody has until now started to "threat" with leaving because of this. Now it doesn't need you to start with that. That's just no way for a reasonable discussion to happen.


Edit:
@GrandGnu
Personal attacks don't lead to anything, so please let's not start with them. It only achieves a hostile tone on the forums which would be sad for us players and even worse for the devs. After all, it's still a pretty nice place here.

did everyone miss the part where I said change was fine as long as its not the "vasari need to be able to stand toe to toe with TEC" part?

its right there! there! above me! look UP! UP UP UP UP UP UP UP!

I like a lot of the TONED DOWN versions of many suggestions, but as it is too many people *ach* grandm *ooo* are demanding gross oversimplifications to the very structure of vasari diversity while demanding diversification in only part of the game where they are at all comparable, the first 15 minutes.

what that leads to is a game thats just like any other, which I cannot abide.

But why then did you say the following?

Vasari ships are allready slightly superior to TEC ships on a 1 vs. 1 basis (specifically not looking at cost effectiveness at all). So they're allready "toe to toe". Making individual Vasari ships stronger (even to the extreme example of making a Vasari ship twice as powerful as a TEC ship) wouldn't change that.

But the TEC are able to outproduce the Vasari and win with numerical superiority (mostly thanks to the much higher resource and support cost of Vasari ships). Now if the Vasari ships get even stronger and more expansive, that wouldn't change that balance much.

Specifically it wouldn't make the game simpler or harder at all.

So I come back to my initial question, why did you then start with the assumption that people are saying: ?

The problem is that Schod, all 17 years of him, has taken it upon himself to constantly remind everyone how superior he is in intellect and multiplayer. And how we're all a "bunch of idiots who need to play the game for more than 5 minutes"

I don't deal well with those who lack basic social skills, especially some punk kid who likely eats alone @ lunch and stays in the basement all day playing his computer because he has no social life.

If he isn't being outright abusive and insulting to other posters here who have a different viewpoint, then he's being passive-aggressive and trying to subtley insult other posters.

I can't stand the kid, absolutely can't stand him. I wish he would be banned. He's caused nothing but trouble on these boards.

To play devil's advocate, the ability to deal with 'difficult' people without reducing yourself to the same methods is as much a sign of intellectual and social maturity as not being so difficult in the first place.

Schod knows himself, and he doesn't deny his attitude or his ego, I have to give him credit for that. And, while I rarely agree with the way he goes about making his points, once you read through the outer layers of his posts and get at what he's trying to say, his points are no more or less valid than anyone else's on the forum.

because its what most people are demanding whether its what they mean or not.

on a pure 1v1 basis sure, but the TEC are far more capable of pumping out streams of units where the Vasari have to struggle for every frigate.

I'm sorry, but its not an assumption. all 300+ posts of it.

*gleefully presses the ignore button*
no, I'm not ruining another thread to engage in a childish debate about social intelligence, I at least add something of substance to this board.

Except that is a change.

A) It completely eliminates any possibilty of "trade attacks" -- attacking a persons refinery ships.

Since refineries send their units out interstellar, its possible, if not efficient, to have a bunch of them in a defended "node" of some kind that reaches out to a half dozen systems for the resources, can't reproduce that with your model.

Grandgnu, i think I first started to dislike Schod when we had a petty argument about icons in a game, because he was kicking me out of a game for using a particular icon... instead of asking me nicely.

That being said, I don't hate him, and I'm not going to start insulting him, calling him lonely at lunch, is A. Completely out of line and B. Worse then anything he has said to date that I am aware of.

Your intollerance doesn't make you type that, your fingers do and they require your brain to do so, therefore you can exert self control. We will all like you more for it.

Just ignore him if he really bothers you that much, hell you never know, might bother him more than the insults   

hey, I did ask you nicely first.

yeah, not much of a rebuke, but its true.

  
uh, you mean its c) false

that being said (hey wait, havent you been around long enough to know I'm an intollerable ass?) I appreciate you coming to my aid... uh, sorta.

Passive-aggressive much? You say you won't get involved in a childish debate and make sure to toss in an insult at the end of your post.

You even have the audacity to jump into threads such as the one about LordKosc's mod for the Vasari and insult people. If you aren't interested in the Vasari mod that others want to use, then DON'T USE IT. Is there really a point (other than you being a useless troll with an ego problem) to come in and start bashing people who want to make use of something that you can just choose not to download?

They should require a license to use the "interwebs"   

*JAMS the ignore button*
I will continue to do this until you stop quoting me, as I have no other judge of whether or not you're attacking me.

Thank you very much for telling us what we actually mean. We get so confused about that. Schod - the great Enlighter!

you see Daton, you so clearly missed what I said

I said I have NO knowledge of what you mean EXCEPT through what you say, something I'm VERY certain is a nonperfect system. hence why I say I do not know what you want, what I do know is what you say. thats a perfect paraphrasism.

could we get back to SINS BETA 4 GAMEPLAY FEEDBACK

dammit, go start another thread and stop wasting people's time (people who actually want to read this thread FOR GAMING FEEDBACK).

Thank you.

no, thank you, completely forgot what thread we were on.

like theif said, enough banter. back to the OT