Major Stress Major Stress

[MOD WIP] Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 (updated 01/10/09)

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[MOD WIP] Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 (updated 01/10/09)

from Sins Forums

Featured (by a small mention) in the October edition of PC Gamer magazine

Candidate for Mod Database's 2008 Mod of the Year

This is the OLD "Work in Progress" thread for the Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 mod.

The new WIP topic is here https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/342747

The "Release" topic can be found here https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/322473


The mod is intended to be a hommage, and tribute to the original Sacrifice of Angels mod for Homeworld. It will use many of the same models, and effects created for that mod by the Trekmods team. Like the original SoA mod SoA2 is set during the Dominion War era of Star Trek. Using both canon, and non-canon units to recreate those battles with Sins "empire building" mechanic added. Like in SoA you can fight battles in SoA2 using hundreds of starships. Sometimes thousands if your computer can handle it ;)

While the mod was not intended as a "Total Conversion". That is exactly what it is winding up being. There is much about the Sins engine, and mechanics that we still need to learn. There are some hard coded stumbling blocks we have to overcome.

The factions will be the Federation, Klingons, Romulan, and the Dominion (with Breen, and Cardassian ally units). The main factions seen in the Dominion War. With a "Surprise" as the Pirate faction.

Factions like the Borg "may" be added in the future. LokiGodofMischief is working on a very good 3rd party Borg add on for SoA 2. It is very possible his add on may be merged with SoA 2 at a much later time.

The current version of SoA 2 is  0.03b   "The Second Dominion War". Look for it here  https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/322473

0.03b only works with Sins versions 1.1, 1.11, and 1.12.

All previous versions of SoA 2 are obsolete, and will not be supported, or hosted anymore. All older version downloads will be removed.

We will NOT port SoA 2 over to Entrenchment until after Entrenchment is out of beta, and released. Along with proper forge tool updates.

I am working on the models mostly ALONE so it may take a while for any new ship model updates.

Darkshimmer is the Balancing guru, Code monkey, and Master at arms. We do have other contributers, and the best 3rd party work from the finest artists in the trek mod community to help make SoA 2 the best it can be.

Status of Demo 0.04  "The actors are in place" 

Will update when i have news.

General Changes:

Manshooters Volumetric Explosions mod will be included as of 0.03a

May include Sins Plus (planets), but ill need to see how much that mod needs changing to incorporate into SoA 2.

SoA 2 0.03 and above is now patch 1.1, and better compatable. Sins patches 1.11, and 1.12 only address balancing, and online exploits, and have no effect on the mod.

Ships will have some anti stike craft weaponry.

Ships are still being added and balanced accordingly.

More re-balancing so that one faction is not overpowered over the other.

The Federation:

Faction is complete. Only structures left

The Klingon Empire

Faction is complete. Only structures left.

The Romulan Star Empire:

Faction is complete. Only structures left

The Dominion:

Faction is complete. Still needs balancing work.

Pirates:

They were going to be the Borg, but that idea failed. So we are looking into Random multirace ship spawns.

Planetary Defenders

Basically "Ships of the week" like the Maquis, Sona, Ferrengi, Tammarian battle cruisers and the like.

Balancing:  Darkshimmer has the Federation, Romulan, and Klingon Empire, and Unified Dominion balanced.

Gameplay: We now have a working Cloaking Device! Check the ModDB page for the WIP video. Cloaking will not be fully implemented in the mod until version 0.04

Art: We are working on an LCARS style UI, adding proper icons, and pictures for all of the new units. The UI is going to take a while to do, because of all of the redundancy of the Sins UI. SoA 2 uses 2 sets of UI textures. Instead of the standard 4 textures for buttons, and 2 textures for icons. SoA 2 uses 8 textures for buttons, and 4 textures for icons which IMO is a major waste of resources, because sins loads all these textures at startup. Unfortunetly i dont see any other way to do it. What is kind of cool is that we dont have to use the same HUD for each faction. It is possible to have unique HUDs, but again the perfomance hit, because of the extra drain on resources could be big, and not worth it.

In Planning: (No promises, or guarentees, but we will try to add these if possible.)

Troop Transport effects.

Planetary invasion animations

Tractor beams. (need a code monkey for this)

Whatever else we can think of and are capable of doing.

Future Updates:

SoA 2 0.04 is now in planning, and will be focused primarily on Proper research trees, Ability's, and adding proper Structures. More than likely demo 0.04 will be the last demo. After that then the full mod should be ready.

SoA 2 0.05 will be the final spit, and polish of the mod. It will focus mainly on re-balancing if needed. Also final artwork changes will be made here. Which will include some ship model re-builds, and re-texturing.

The Full SoA 2 1.0 mod will be released "When it is Finished". We are doing this on our own free time. We aren't getting paid to do this. We have no set schedule. We have no time limit. I want this one to be good. So it wont go online until we feel it is ready.

*NOTE: Much about Sins as we are all now realizing is hardcoded. SoA 2 is going to be far from a perfect "trek" mod due to these hardcoded issues. However we will try to do the best we can with workarounds, and compromises to get it as close as possible. Like i said some things wont be perfect. Some things cannot be done at all. Enjoy the mod for what it is, and try not to be too "nit picky".

SoA2 will be hosted on Mod Database once it is ready http://www.moddb.com/mods/star-trek-sacrifice-of-angels-2

This main header will be updated when i have news to post.





modding
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Reply #577 from Sins Forums Top
quite a relief
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Reply #579 from Sins Forums Top
Sweet! Thanks for the update! I am not good at modeling/coding but I am interested in getting the software so I can work on making them. I have read the tutorial by EZ though. Is that the main thing that is needed? Is there anything else that needs to be done? I will keep checking in to see if there is something I can contribute.
Reply #580 from Sins Forums Top
Im sorry, but the Nebula is way bigger and stronger than the excelsior.... perhaps switching their roles would be fair?

Well I guess they're about the same size, but the nebula is significantly more advanced.
Reply #581 from Sins Forums Top
The differences in technology between the two generations are vast, but you don't keep a ship in service for a century unless you're constantly repairing and upgrading it. The excelsior class vessels used in DS9 are not the same thing as the excelsior class vessel that debuted in ST3. The Lakota refits that were in the dominion war are supposed to be using weaponry and shielding technology comparable to the defiant and sovereign class ships.
Reply #582 from Sins Forums Top
just a quick nod to the developers of this mod. you have your dedicated fanbase as far as Hong Kong and Japan. we're looking forward to the release when time comes. thank you.
Reply #583 from Sins Forums Top
the Excelsior, and Miranda Class's used during the dominion war was fitted with the latest technology of the 24th century. Granted the hull's were over 100 years old, and weak compared to the Nebula, and Galaxy Class's, but thats why they were used as escorts, or support vessels. They were not intended to be a line warship, and they were only used to fill the need for ships.

A release will be a long time from now, but hopefully we can scrape up a mini mod until we can get more time to devote to her.
Reply #584 from Sins Forums Top
I truly hope so, I think the community could be a great source of help and support for the mod & on a more personal level, I would love to be playing with it. =P

Good luck either way,

Adm. Cobbs
Reply #585 from Sins Forums Top
i have a you tube account and if you could give me a copy of the models you have so far i can make i a preview and you can put them into a rar or zip file if you need to i have win rar i also have experience in replacing files to make new stuff in the game just put the files in folders named after the folders the files go into send me an email at [email protected]
Reply #586 from Sins Forums Top
I will not arbitrarily give away models (read back post's about this). Many good friends of the trek community contributed to create the SoA/FTB/SoA2 models, and i wont disrespect them by just handing them out to anyone that asks for them.
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Reply #587 from Sins Forums Top
I just find that I haven't played Sins since I found out this was coming out for some reason. I am fine with waiting to make sure the expansions in the Star Trek area are good. I will say however that I want to be in any alpha and beta testing because I am patiently waiting like many and I am sure some feedback from those that visit here should be able to enhance the game too. I just hope that stress gets the time/support he needs to complete this thing so I can play star trek version of this.
Reply #588 from Sins Forums Top
ok i new to moding for sins but if you need any help i am here. but i must ask this is the DS9 station going to be with the cardassion or with the Federation and what will its perpes be sens it can't move.


the Excelsior, and Miranda Class's used during the dominion war was fitted with the latest technology of the 24th century. Granted the hull's were over 100 years old, and weak compared to the Nebula, and Galaxy Class's, but thats why they were used as escorts, or support vessels. They were not intended to be a line warship, and they were only used to fill the need for ships.
End of quote


thats true with the Miranda it was used as a escort and science vessel. but the Excelsior class was old but it was used as a 3ed type dreadnought do to the size of the ship. it was bigger then the constitution class starship and that was a heavy frigate.
if you need any star ships heres a good web sight.WWW Link
Reply #589 from Sins Forums Top
it was bigger then the constitution class starship and that was a heavy frigate.
End of quote


Constitution class vessels were listed as heavy cruisers during that era, btw.
Reply #590 from Sins Forums Top
The Constitutions were all decommissioned, and not used in the TNG era. Except for the battle of wolf 359. Which i would assume one was brought out of mothball hastily for that battle. It obviously did not survive (its wreck passed by the 1701-D's view screen).

The Excelsior Class in the movie era was a heavy cruiser just like the Constitution was (why i have no clue). It would be about an equivalent to a frigate in the TNG era due to its age. In a solo fight a jemmy bug would be able to take it down (even with dominion war upgrades).

If you remember Wrath of Khan the Miranda supposedly outclassed the connie. With spocks comment of "she can still out run, and out gun us".

Anyways lets avoid the geekfest technobabble arguments here.

I finished texturing the SoA2 Ambassador yesterday. heres a few shots of her rendered in Nano FX GE. Still working on the bump, and spec maps.





now to start working on some bad guys.
Reply #591 from Sins Forums Top
Why work on specularity maps when Sins do not support them (as far as I know) - the game applies a universal "glossiness" variable, no?

Anyway, a very nice model and texture work!
Reply #592 from Sins Forums Top
Sins does support spec mapping. Spec maps are used in the alpha channel of the main "-cl" texture.
Reply #593 from Sins Forums Top
sorry i get cruisers and frigate confused.
Reply #594 from Sins Forums Top
If you remember Wrath of Khan the Miranda supposedly outclassed the connie. With spocks comment of "she can still out run, and out gun us"
End of quote


Sorry, I just have to say the reason for the quote is due to Enterprises level of damage. They were not able to get up to snuff after the first encounter with Reliant. Remember Scotty said not to give too many bumps. Everything is routed like a Christmas tree.

Anyway... Major, that is really coming along nicely.
Reply #595 from Sins Forums Top
I just find that I haven't played Sins since I found out this was coming out for some reason. I am fine with waiting to make sure the expansions in the Star Trek area are good. I will say however that I want to be in any alpha and beta testing because I am patiently waiting like many and I am sure some feedback from those that visit here should be able to enhance the game too. I just hope that stress gets the time/support he needs to complete this thing so I can play star trek version of this.
End of quote



I am forced to agree with Nan, It feels like I have been waiting for this project alot longer than I actually have, but I too have refused to play Sins until more Trek ships are released. I am aware, as a modder myself, that mods take time & that the very first post by Major Stress states quite clearly that, "It'll be ready, when its ready.." However, I am somewhat baffled because others (i.e. the Star Wars Mod team & Ezraeil) have been able to release several alpha/beta's in the months that have passed since.

Now its not my intention to rush or critisize in any way & I know that you want several ships in each race before you release your alpha, so as to give a good and proper taste of whats to come. But, if I may remind you, that was back when you had a full working team behind you. With the bulk of your team gone, your internet access being limited & the projects release dates getting constantly pushed back, the best idea may be to start releasing ships like ezraeil did...

I cant speak for everyone here, but I have been following this mod since its conception & I have seen you Major Stress, tell people who were a little less than patient in those first few months, that the mod would be ready when its ready & you councled them to be patient & that it would be well worth their wait. Only to turn around several months after that and say that most of your team has quit and your not sure when or if the mod will be released because of internet & other complications.

While I enjoy knowing that progress is being made, I am tired of seeing pictures of ships I cant play with in a mod, that may never be released, for a game that I refuse to play without the mod.

Its time to stop showing us pictures & time to let us start playing, because with your mod's team in the state its in, it feels more like your just teasing/bragging at this point. Which I know is not the case of course, but thats what its starting to feel like to me.

Just one mans opinion, & again, I dont mean to offend anyone.....

Adm. Cobbs


Reply #596 from Sins Forums Top
Yes the mod is taking much longer than anticipated to get an alpha release done, and i apologize for that. I am basically working on the mod alone now. I still cant say when a release will be available. The thing is i want this to be GOOD. I don't want a half ass mod with just a few ship replacements, and a crappy weapon pack. I had, and still have a certain vision for SoA2. Other members had their own vision, and it conflicted. So they left. Not to say they didnt contribute. I have an excellent weapon pack, and those involved will get full credit. I dont mean to tease people. To be brutally honest i wouldnt post any news at all until i had something to release. However i think the community deserves some kind of update. So i post my WIP's.

I have enough ships to fill the full Federation lineup with the exception of the Miranda. Which i am working on a new mesh for her as i type.

I do not have any Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, or Dominion ships ready yet. I have the mesh's but they still need conversion, and re-texturing. Most of these ships are coming straight from our original SoA/FTB mods for homeworld, and bridge commander. Some mesh's for structures, extra ships, and civilian traffic will have to be built from scratch. There are some SoA/FTB ships not worthy to use (like the miranda) that need re-meshing. Plus the entire Breen lineup with the exception of 2 ships will have to be designed, meshed, textured, and balanced from scratch. Effects, Particles, and Ability's will need to be done as well. It is quite a daunting task for just one person. Especially for one who travels for work. However if i have to do it myself then so be it. Just dont expect a release anytime soon. It will be done when i feel its worth releasing. This may sound negative, but it is not intended to be. This is my situation. I will make one promise tho. This mod WILL get finished. It just may take a while. So be patient, and enjoy the game along with others mods (cant wait to see the star wars, BSG, and stargate mods in action) :)
Reply #597 from Sins Forums Top
Sins does support spec mapping. Spec maps are used in the alpha channel of the main "-cl" texture.
End of quote


Yeah, my bad. Happens when you type faster than you think. :NOTSURE:
Anyway, specularitize away! ;)

And as someone who knows exactly what it means to single-handedly work on a mod of this scope, I can say kudos to you for perseverance and having the resolution to stick to your vision!
Reply #598 from Sins Forums Top
Patience is a virtue.
Reply #599 from Sins Forums Top
Thank you for the updates Major!
Also, have you considered porting vessels from Star Trek: Legacy? Since it's a newer game than Homeworld or Bridge Commander, it may contain better models.

Just a thought. :-)
Reply #600 from Sins Forums Top
People have managed to get out most of what I had to say (Brigadier_General on Borg and the picture of the ship scales). I do have a few modifications to both though.

On Adm. Cobbs scale pictures: I think this is a pretty good resource. There has been dispute of ship sizes because extrememe trek-tech-nerds have looked at various pictures of ships next to different ships and come up with different ship sizes. The largest apparent size of one ship compared to the smallest apparent size of the same ship has a diffrence of 6x or more. It's not just with the BoP, but here's my example.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm

Borg: There will be one terrifying problem with the Borg that will need to be addressed. The first capital ship is free. Imagine, 10 minutes into a game, a Cube shows up at your further colony, probably no more than 3 or 4 planets from your Home. In addition to using $#!^loads of supply, the Cube and other Borg ships will need VERY long build times with LOADS of resource costs (they are 2500+ times the volume of the largest Federation ships). Also, if a single cube is often the entire of an invasion fleet, and the Federation used fleets the size of a max Sins fleet to stop it, then maybe the Cube should cost 800 supply or more. Of course...you could also make it so it must be researched to build and put it in the last tier of research so it is only available late in the game.