MikeL1977 MikeL1977

Very Dissapointed?

Very Dissapointed?

Well after playing about 10 games, I've come to realize that there are some pretty big flaws in the game.

1. Its too slow, and takes way too long to finish a game, and I've only played on small random. I played one multiplayer game, and my opponent disc. after 40 mins. Probably due to pirates.

2. In all 10 games, I've fought my "actual" opponent twice. The other times its all been me vs. pirates. When I see them come with like 15+ ships, I usually just quit, becasue its really stupid. From reading the forums, its clear 90% of the player feel the same way.

3. There is nothing to do in this game but wait for resources, which clearly means they don't generate fast enough so that we can buy stuff. This contributes to the slow factor... This game needs to be at least 5x faster so that games can be played within a reasonable period of time. Games that take hours to finish, skirmish wise, fail.

4. I think once IGN rates this game, its over... We will all move on... Sigh...
107,333 views 110 replies
Reply #76 Top
Sins of a Solar Empires does have the four x's accounted for, but a lot of other things that're typically in a 4X game, particularly a 4X game set in space, are missing or simplified.

There's no custom ships. Capships gaining experience and letting you choose abilities doesn't count, because eventually (should they survive long enough) they will all have the same four abilities. I know Civ4 doesn't have this and that's considered a 4X too, but I'm talking about

Custom ships is the big one for me, the lack of it really limits replayability. Every side has units that fill the same roles, a necessity to balance the game, but if there were a way to make custom ships then one could, instead, balance components and hulls. There is a vital choice here, though it could probably be condensed now to balancing between 5 or 6 extremes.

With custom ships it becomes less of an issue that X ship is better than Y ship, because whoever made Y can redesign it and the components/hulls would hopefully be priced so that it's fair enough anyway.

Most 4X games have identical components and hulls for all races and yet, the ability to mix and match them to fit what YOU need or how YOU think that race would design their ships, adds a major facet to gameplay and replayability. I know GalCiv II is coming out with an expansion that changes this (meaning different components and research for difference races), but they set the bar a lil differently and there's no telling yet if it'll really pay off. It might even be neutered before the expansion comes out, like the post-game 'stories' were in Dark Avatar.

Obviously a big reason we don't have custom ships is that the game is played in real-time. This would prohibit a system as in-depth as GalCiv 2's, where one can spend 15 minutes to an hour designing a ship to look and function as optimally as possible. There's surely a solution though, a happy medium, if only someone could figure it out, and no matter why a feature is cut out it doesn't change the fact that it's gone and missed.

Secondly, research is highly abbreviated, to the point where it is consistent with research in many RTSes. I don't get into lots of RTSes but I know there's several 'age up'/level-up that have about as many research options as Sins of a Solar Empire. Although, research is so expensive in this game that you must pick and choose what you really really want right up until the end, and that's good, that's more strategy.

Thirdly, and on this one it's mostly 'there' Diplomacy is a bit less vital than many 4X games I could think of, it might actually be a viable strategy allowing you to step back and let everyone else hammer away at eachother (and NOT a foolproof strategy, to its credit). Keeping an ally to the very end might demand some sacrifices in, say, Galactic Civilizations 2, but it's something that can actually last to the end. In Sins, a 'team' can win but there's no option for alliances once it begins. This might have a lot to do with a multiplayer focus where one wants to keep things fair, and there's certainly enough options mechanically where you can form 'alliances' in reality TV parlance just to ensure you and the other party will make it to the 'final round'.

Combat is certainly more determined by what you do ahead of time, and outside of combat, than the actual tactics therein. You can say the same for many RTSes, though. It's easy to run away and preserving your forces is a very good idea, that's actually a very meaningful decision that's marginalized in many RTSes. So, that's 4X-ish, you have to think about the big picture even when the fire starts.

It's a lil weak compared to an RTS, imo, you can't have a frontline and back ranks and so on while in combat since the ships just maneuver around eachother at will and attack any enemy they want. You need a highly superior force to actually deny access to an area. Some abilities are very crucial to fire off manually so they do inject some tactics in, however.

Flank and side attacks don't do anything special (though probably 90% of RTSes are the same way), though capships are most powerful offense-wise from the front and slow in turning so there is some tactic in that.

When it comes to the level of choice and the importance of those choices in combat goes, I'd give it a 7/10 compared to the best RTSes of recent years, but it does substantially if held up to /all/ RTSes that've come out recently. A lot of them are much worse in that regard

All in all I'd say it's a pretty good game, but it's not a true 4X. It is fair to say it is 4X-meets-RTS, because that doesn't mean it'd have every feature of both genres. Personally, I think it lacks the replayability of a good 4X game. I'd compare it equally to Civ4 in this regard, what it lacks in horses-vs-tanks it makes up for with actually decent combat.

I know some people might say that multiplayer is the true replayability of the game, but you know what? A good 50% of games are pretty good with the right people. There're tens of thousands of people right now playing Poker for f***'s sake.

I guess the length of time it takes to actually finish a match adds to the value here, because if you feel there's nothing new to do after three playthroughs, you've probably been at it for 20 - 40 hours and for a retail game (not Dwarf Fortress) that's considered a good deal.
Reply #77 Top
@Stromko - A very nice post indeed. We have many common points of view or concerns with regards to the overall 4X elements.
Reply #78 Top
I actually like the fact that the game takes time, about the same as a game of AoE2 really. And if I want it fast (Homeworld fast) I just crank up the speed.
Reply #79 Top
I played my FIRST Real Game with a friend last night 2v4 on easy.. the game only took 2 nights to complete. This RTS is a Decent and Fair example of Change in RTS's no longer do ya join a RTS and leave 5 mins later because some Loser used some fag strat or lame Tower rush? yah it takes a long time to get a game really going Jack up resources Jack up teching.. Only thing u should be Dissapointed by is the AI's Generic Strat and some diplomacy issues..
Reply #80 Top
OMG!!! What is up with all the 'pony people' in this community. What am I missing here??? X-(
Reply #81 Top
Oh, and my two cents on pirates is that they're actually quite helpful and I've wanted to actually add to MY bounty several times to ensure they attack me.

Why? Capships! A decent fleet with capships can handle pirates no problem and gain access to potent abilities without ever meeting the 'real' enemies. Other enemies don't throw away big fleets in battles they can't possibly win, thus giving you loads of experience without your capships truly being threatened.

I guess their suicidal nature might make sense though, their pirate overlords just want bounty and might be throwing their most disposable henchmen at you.

edit: Oh and thanks for complimenting the other post, even though on the second or third paragraph I forgot to finish my thought about Civ4 =) I meant that Civ4 lacked custom units too, but it's not a space 4X game so, it wasn't what I was trying to compare Sins to.
Reply #82 Top
Yar! We space pyrates do take to kindly to mutiny!!! Yar!!

Reply #83 Top
I love this game's pace. It's the right speed for me.
To add there's no turn button damn do I hate turn buttons, really if you have played sword of the stars just like I have you know what I'm talking about. It took literally minutes for a new turn to load, this is not a problem in itself were it not for the fact that the only thing you could do was sit and watch the same screen for minutes during those loadtimes. I've actually picked up a book to read inbetween, but the gameplay was allot of fun just not enough to warrant those agonizing turn loads.
Reply #84 Top
I too love the game, but its changed so much in some ways for the better in some ways for the worse. BETA 1 back in the day, made the game feel like a fast paced RTS, by the time it hit retail it turned into what it is now, a RT4X game.
Reply #85 Top
No. This game is clearly not for you. Why don't you try World In Conflict instead? It's the complete opposite kind of game. You'll probably love it. I know i do.

Yes i swing both ways, sorry :)
Reply #86 Top
calls for EET , we have a new victim for you :)
Reply #87 Top
Stromko: Dawn of Victory implements custom ships.
Reply #88 Top
This is not a 4X game, come on guys seriously! Civ 4 or Gal Civ 2 are 4X games. This is the same as any other RTS, putting in conquerable planets doesn't make it a 4X game. Every other aspect of the game is pretty much an RTS. The scientific research and economic management aspect of the game is about as deep as a shot glass.
Reply #89 Top

It's frustrating because when C&C3 was released people complained it was the same old game just with shiny new graphics, stardock try something new and people bark they want the old kind of gameplay. This is the problem with the games industry at the minute and exactly the reason why Stardock don't have a publisher for this game in the EU yet.



I could not agree more and its this attitude of gamers not knowing what they want that has allowed the gaming industry to take advantage of them and has led to a downward spiral of service.
End of quote


My thoughts exactly, the more innovation the better.
Reply #90 Top
Tempted to get off-topic with all these other off-topic responses, but I think I can fight it.

To the OP:

I'm sorry you're disappointed, but it's hard to be disappointed if you didn't have any expectations to begin with. If you had expectations, what were they? Some have mentioned that previews of the game sent mixed-signals as far as what the game would ultimately be, but I find it hard to believe any preview indicated that this was going to be a typical half-hour zerg-rush affair. At least I never got the impression from what I read.

You think it's too slow, but many think it's just right, or even too fast. Maybe those who think the game is either just right or too fast are in the minority as far as gamers go, but I think this game was designed for the minority; it's a niche product, not a Starcraft/C&C clone.

It's hard not to be snide about your IGN remark so I'll simply ignore it.
Reply #91 Top
I havent played long enough to contradict what the OP is saying but all I can say is Ive been for years looking for a strat where 5 min rush isnt the most viable tactic, and games are drawn out with big long wars over resources, and that fights last long enough so that you can be building and mounting counter attacks while fights are going on. So for me Im looking for a strat the shows a bit more realism and many facets than a button bash or 2 or for instance build power plant, barracks , item 3 , spam spam rush, game done in 2 mins.

Not meaning to cause any grief here just saying what Im looking for in a strat and Im still very new , Im just hoping when I do go on multiplayer Im not one of the people that keeps getting de-syncs. In a funny sort of way Im appreciating a game I can just go with one strategy and win in 2 mins and its more to do with making frontlines at strategic locations, the game is slowly growing on me.
Reply #92 Top
Cant find the edit button sorry about the double post but I dont see the enjoyment in doing 2 min rushes all the time just for the sake of online stats Im more wanting to have some epic battles when I get better. I dont even care if I lose only that the game is reminiscant of a real war scenario

I play the Empires mod for Half Life 2 and each round of that is about as long (as well as most RTS games)!
End of quote


Being careful not to sway offtopic too much but I am going to check the above mod out sometime, sounds intriguing, Thanks!

SOrry! dam! , I will honestly check the dates from now on , dam silly me dow!

oops!



Reply #93 Top
 :SURPRISED:  You're a necromancer !

You resurrected, on April 22, a thread that had been inactive since ... February 7 !

And, with a double post !  :LOL: 

(Not that I mind in the least.)
Reply #94 Top
See above edit, sorry cyber! wont post on here again, cant believe I did that. Away to stand in corner hehe
Reply #95 Top
Well after playing about 10 games, I've come to realize that there are some pretty big flaws in the game.1. Its too slow, and takes way too long to finish a game, and I've only played on small random. I played one multiplayer game, and my opponent disc. after 40 mins. Probably due to pirates.2. In all 10 games, I've fought my "actual" opponent twice. The other times its all been me vs. pirates. When I see them come with like 15+ ships, I usually just quit, becasue its really stupid. From reading the forums, its clear 90% of the player feel the same way.3. There is nothing to do in this game but wait for resources, which clearly means they don't generate fast enough so that we can buy stuff. This contributes to the slow factor... This game needs to be at least 5x faster so that games can be played within a reasonable period of time. Games that take hours to finish, skirmish wise, fail.4. I think once IGN rates this game, its over... We will all move on... Sigh...
End of quote


You truly must be retarded.

You quit the game when pirates show up? LOL Learn how to use the pirates instead of quitting like a mary.

Mods - just delete this thread - it's essentially ignorant trolling. If I wanted to see this level of discourse I would record the Jerry Kid's telathon and watch it over and over again.
Reply #96 Top
I play the Empires mod for Half Life 2 and each round of that is about as long (as well as most RTS games)!
End of quote
Empires is the shit! It's the only multiplayer FPS I enjoy anymore.

Reply #97 Top
To make more happen faster in the game.....

1. Increase the speed for research, income, build ships etc, in the options menu (I believe you have to have the 1.04 patch for this to appear).

2.Pirates can be removed in the game designer screen as well as in the options menu in version 1.04.

3. Make sure you have unlocked teams as this will allow the Ai to give you missions (attack enemy ships, tech structures, etc) to fulfill for credits and better diplomatic relations. If you don't fulfill the missions within the time limit, you will be viewed in less favor and eventually attacked. In one of my first three games I was attacked by all three Ai players, including my own ally! (I failed his missions).


I find there is a lot to do in the game, between colonizing, fighting, building ships, structures (and figuring what to build now), upgrading worlds and researching civic and military tech. I always have something I can do. Anyway, maybe this is not your kind of game. After all, if we all liked mint chocolate chip ice cream, there would be shortages!
Reply #98 Top
When I see them come with like 15+ ships, I usually just quit, becasue its really stupid.
End of quote


lol....???
Reply #99 Top
As for "custom ships". OMG, they are still having huge debates as it is over how to balance things with standard ships; customizable ships would be a nightmare. We all know that there would end up being just one or two weapons and defences in every ship built in the end, and then the "spammming Lazer/Sheilds" threads would start.

Customizable works ok in turn based, and vs the AI, but in Real-Time and vs Humans, well, they might be able to balance it, by, I don't know, maybe the time Star Craft 5 comes out.