Hi, I do, yes. And I hated them all.

However, I LOVE STARCRAFT. I also LOVE CIV. And surprise, surprise, I LOVE Sins.

That said, when I want to play a shorter game, an extra level of speed is the way to go.

The thing with an extra level of speed is that, PROVIDED the players can keep up, the gameplay and dynamic stays EXACTLY the same. This is NOT true for smaller maps and less opponents (the other way to have a shorter game).

I want a faster speed exactly BECAUSE I like the Sins gameplay, NOT because I want a different, dumbed down game.

Yes, that means sometimes I will need opponents who think fast on their toes, so they can keep up with the faster speed. That's what the internet matching service is for. The internet will also be there when I want to play while relaxing with a beer in one hand.

And just to be clear, the thing that killed Tribes 2 was that the vehicles and skiing was too damned fun on its own and attracted twitch-only gamers, not that the speed was too fast. The same could happen to Sins if some guy comes up with a custom map that appeals to rush-RTSers, whether or not there is a 'fastest' speed option.

As its been said numerous times already, i wanted to say that i feel very good when i spend $60+ dollars on a game that will last me anywhere from 30 mins to over 3months, rather then spend $60+ dollars on something i beat in one night.
Perfect example of a little game called Elder Scrolls 4:Oblivion. That game has been played by me for over 250+hrs, and i still find myself going back to it. but halo 3 i beat in less then 8hrs on the elite difficulty.
My hats off to you Ironclad, although i havnt played the game yet, iv read enough posts to know my money is going to be well spent and that im looking forward to many weeks of gameplay.
and really, what where any of you people who expected it to be only 30 min games thinking, do your research first so we dont have to hear your whining.

[quote]


1) "Their chance to have fun"? Do you have ANY idea how many boring, retarded, generic RTS games are out there? Haven't the console gamers been getting their gloriously desired dumbed-down games, one after the other, for over 5 years now?
[quote]

Oh, God, not the PC gamer superiority complex AGAIN. Do you have any idea how annoying this is to people who don't think anyone with tastes different from their own is a complete idiot by virtue of that fact? I also like how you blend regular RTS gamers with console gamers, which I suspect would give the average RTS gamer a conniption fit. I need to make some kind of hierarchy of gaming self-righteousness one of these days.



We. Have. A. Game. Speed. Filter. It's right there on the "Join Game" screen. I don't see why this concept is so difficult to get your head around. Unless you're saying that this will somehow cause all the players who like to play on Normal and Slow now to disappear, which is an entirely new kind of stupid.



I can't think of any off the top of my head, no. But that's beside the point. If it doesn't change the game for the rest of us, why shouldn't we let the rest of the gaming community have their faster option.

How the hell is "Very Fast" a DUR DUR button, anyway? Strategy doesn't become less important at high speeds, you just have to do it faster. The developers aren't going to turn this game into a micro-intensive clickfest no matter what. The UI itself prevents that. Some people can legitimately believe the game is too slow-paced.

Syvere, you started with a slippery slope fallacy and then made an ad hominem attack in retalation for kingberk's completely valid retort. I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

I agree I think that game is way to slow. Or the ships and structures just take too long to kill. I always have all my settings on fast and even on small maps a single game takes hours. I usually don't mind the length of a game, its just that everything is happening extremely slow.

I hope 1.2 fixes some of the game play aspect of the game. Maybe re balancing ship hp would makes things faster.

And does anyone hate the cat and mouse AI. ??

I hate chasing enemy ships from one planet to another. Even when I am outnumbered 4 to 1 they always run away. Even when I am attacking their home planet.

[/quote] i wonder if all these people complaining that the game is to slow
realise they can save the game and come back TOMMOROW and play it

this typ of rts/4x is not and should not be made fast

i remember the days of orion and imirium galactica 2 were games took me up to a MONTH to finish

glad i had saved games there otherwise id be real constapated

ps people who post should avoid swearing people who counter post should avoid mocking

pls feel free to correct me [/quote]

SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE whats wrong with saving or did i miss somthing

Woot! Just spent that last 9 hours in a small random 2 player normal AI with fast research, high resources, and normal speed game. I of course had to capture everything and destroy the pirates while researching all the techs and building every ship I possibly could. Oh what a blast. The pirates were a pain in the butt! They wiped like 5 fleets with 4+ capital ships in each (not all at once, but over the course of the game). Eventually took 5 capital bombardment ships and 50 million squadrons of fighters to root them out. On Normal! Its been sooo long since I've play a game that was this satisfying and challenging. Its like you wanna light up a cigarette afterward, it was that good. I probably wont try hard until the patch when the pirates get a bit of a nerf and the bombardment ships can be killed a bit quicker. I found it slightly irritating when a dozen or so of those ships would enter my space and I have 15 squadrons, 3 capitals, half dozen frigates all attacking them and they still manage to get my planet in the red or worse. Had decent tech upgrades too. But whatever. This game is fantastic and the length just means you get your moneys worth!

If you want something quick, go play CnC3 for all of about 16 seconds before you get bored of it and move on to the next. For me, I'm gonna stick with the random maps where I can play in half a dozen star systems with a hundred or so planets for days on end.

Thanks a ton Ironclad and Stardock! You've truly made a great game! Keep up the great work!

I played a small map yesterday with slow speed setting and normal research (9 planets I think) and it took us 4,5 hours to finish it.

But for some the speed is still too fast (for the old and round-based players ) and it would be nice to get a "Slower" speed setting.

So you think it's ok for kingberk's to do personal attacks just as long it fits your opinions. Right-o...

I've been around the gaming scene for the better part of 20 years, I know what I'm talking about. BioShock, Oblivion and countless of other games are a good example of what happens when the devs start catering games to console gamers with attention span of 30minutes. I admit they are still good games, but not even near they could have been (especially BioShock).

guys please there is a thread for this console vs non console game already cut paste link below into browser

://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?forumid=402&aid=174383#1450413

and i have yet to see a valid counter to saving a game and then resuming it at a later stage other than the impatient (i don’t want to as i want it all now)

and if thats the only couter then its a verry immature couter argument

as usual just my 2 cents

We're talking multiplayer right? Not just the computer, but with one or more human beings. If I'm ready to play and you're not or vice-versa then the saved game is useless. I want to finish a game, not play virtual phone tag with random people. I'm sure that I could eventually plan out a time to play with my friends, but things come up and plans change. Why can't there be an option for the people who can't devote blocks of 3-4 hours at a time and an option for all the dudes that apprently can?

I would like to have a speed setting to play a complete game in 2-3 hours. I can setup Galciv, Civ, or many other TURN BASED 4X games and complete a full game in that time. Because of the Queue systems, and the END TURN Button, I can queue things up and hit end turn a couple times in a row. The time waiting for the queue to run goes by quickly, as I keep hitting end turn.

In Sins, there is no End Turn button. Turns have been decided to be x minutes always(Based on your speed setting). If you complete all the things you want to do in a 'turn' in Sins, just sit there and wait more. On smaller/simpler maps/game setups, x minutes is too much time between turns. I'm sitting there Idle, looking at the screen, waiting for my ships to move, waiting for construction to finish, or waiting for something.

On larger maps, with players that are WILLING to come back night after night, the speed settings are fine. But there is too much idle time right now in some setups.

It doesn't hurt to add more speed options, slower and faster. If you don't want to play at that speed.. Then don't.

@Syvere: So you're the gaming equivalent of a grumpy old man. Wonderful. I suppose "pyscho niche-gamer forumite" could be interpreted as a personal attack, but it came at the end of a trail of valid points. Your response merely dismissed him as "halokiddie" which is highly unlikely to be true and of questionable relevance. You're a textbook example of the PC gamer who thinks that anyone with different tastes that yourself is a complete and utter moron, despite blatant evidence that this is not the case.

Console gamers do not have 30 second attention spans, by the way. Long and slow-paced games are very successful in the console market (JRPGs, mostly, but the point stands). You are not doing the world any favors by propagating this myth.

@hawk: Two reasons - first, some people's problem may be with the pacing, and they want to play a game where they have to really strategize on the run. Saving can't do this. Second, getting everybody you need together to load a saved multiplayer game is an exercise in nightmare logistics.

fair enought my point of view is ammended   

so to sumerise you guys would like to vary the game speed ingame to compensate for Queue and you cant plan a long game with freinds cuse of logistics so you want a faster game setting

fair enough i guss  

altough i must say you guys are awsome gamers as i never get board not once
i try my best to get at least 2 colonys going in 30 min scout the enemy and reserch first basic but crutial techs and that take all my time and half of my one brain cell  

I am only bringing up examples of Turn based games. Games that can only be played on the PC, and that are traditionally regarded as 'play at your own pace' games.

Where the heck did consoles come from? Where the heck did 'go play Command and Conquer/Starcraft' come from?

I think that many people that are playing small maps with 1 opponent think the speed is just right because they are NOT using the queuing system.

For me, I seem to always play the same game for the first 10-15 minutes. It may vary a tiny bit based on the number of connecting planets, but for the most part, my research, my planet construction, and my orbital construction are pretty much the same. Guess what? I queue that up.

In a normal 4x game, at this point, I would start tapping the end turn button. To get to the mid game, where the game starts to differ from other previous games.

Now we're at that mid game, I use fleets with the jump together move. I use rally points on my frigate and Capital ship yards. My scouts, auto scout. My colonizer ships actually auto colonize, even when the colony was just destroyed, 10 seconds ago, with enemy ships in the same system. I use the left hand nav to quickly select planets/shipyards. I continue to use queuing system everywhere.

There's are a ton of tools to allow you to think 10 moves ahead, quickly find something and input multi-orders into the system, just like a turn based strategy game. Unfortunately, if you do that in a small game setup, now you have to wait for those 10 moves to process.

Additional speed settings would allow those 10 moves to happen a little faster.

Single player is NOT the only place I would gain benefit from additional speed settings.

Anyone telling me that I'm playing Sins wrong is silly. I should try and find better friends, that are willing to play 5-8 hr games over 2-3 nights? I should just be happy with a multi-night single player?

I'd like everyone to try and count the number of multi-player games they play in a month that don't have the AI taking over for people who dropped, or didn't show. More often than not that is going to be the case.

MANY people are asking for faster and slower game speeds nicely, presenting solid statements on why it would be better for them. People who feel either way about the game speed, please stop trying to ridicule and stereotype in your posts. I know it's much easier to be an ass on the internet, but let's try and not be.

If Sins and WoW would be for consoles I would almost never turn on my pc. Consoles are just much better for games because there is only one hardeware and there are NO compatibilty issues for graphic cards or too slow machines where you get umplayable framerates. On PC you have to buy a new one after a few years to play new games.

Regarding Speed: Maybe they could add a "Turn-Based" speed and each turn is a few seconds of gameplay and then it pauses until everyone hits "end turn".

No one is asking for an end turn button. I am bringing up the concept of a 'turn' to show that some turns take a long time, and some turns are very short, with almost nothing being done other than the queue processing.

In a big map, there is much to do, even using queuing, and quick select. So turns generally do take a long time, the speed of the game is appropriate.

In a small map, there is not so much to do, using queuing, and quick select, turns don't take a long time.. the speed of the game seems too slow.

People are asking for more speed options. People are asking for the ability to create games that are faster, and slower than they can right now.

People are NOT saying consoles are better here. If you want to talk about console vs pc, please use this other thread
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?forumid=402&aid=174383#1450413

I said 30 MINUTES, not seconds. And that's a little bit generous as an average person's attention is 15minutes IIRC (that's a fact,not an opinion).

Seriously I'm getting a little pissed off by you guys coming here and demanding the game to be tailored to YOUR tastes and needs. While you say that people should respect different opinions the same goes for games. You HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH of short RTS games, and new ones are pouring every year. You should respect that and not try to demand that every goddamn game should be suited for your tastes. You can bet your ass that you won't be seeing me in SC2 forums demanding more RPG features or slower speed settings.

And including faster (and slower for that matter) will only serve one purpose: dividing the community even more than now. I think the 3 available speed settings are bad enough already.

As for the "slippery slope" I have seen dozens of developers fall to this. While IronClad may be different the concern is valid. Certainly not "illogical and uncalled for".

Be my guest! Mod the game to be faster in SP but don't bring that crap to MP scene. Or try to demand the devs to change the game so that you'll get everything you want immediately.

Have you even TRIED the save game system? Have you even asked the other player if you could continue the next day? No? Thought so...

We're not the ones coming to the forums whining and complaining about the game, you are. And by you I mean all who want the higher speed settings.

And finally: kinberks comments are blatant personal attacks. There's just no way around that.

Well no. There are people complaining that it's not slow enough.

True that. I'd edit that part if I could.
Though the ones wanting a slower gameplay seem to be playing SP for the most part. And the game speed for single player can be easily adjusted to suit your tastes with a simple file edit.

Faster speed would be nice for multiplayer In single you can ramp it up pretty easy. ;/

i am probably not "your" typical gamer, so i can only relate to being a casual one at that. i have been looking forward to this game since i heard about it and signed up for the Beta.

being a casual gamer, i usually spend a few hours each saturday and sunday relaxing and diverting my attention. a game that takes a short time to finish is not something that appeals to me....so i have to say that i, for one am happy to see something that will allow time to develop, learn and absorb.

to each their own, but for what it is worth, i like the way this one plays out. (of course i am also the type of person who loves building old sailing ships because of the intricacy of the rigging)

I let loose the "personal attacks" because I honestly thought i'd have an aneurysm if I didn't get it out of my system. You are a perfect example of ignorance, arrogance, and elitism. I figure I might as well stop the logical argument since you clearly don't listen to logic when you don't want to, and i've already made my point. Anybody with any level-headedness or even-handedness or even TOLERANCE agrees with me.

Go suck an egg, cod-bucket.

I just reported your insults, but I can say that I'm not arrogant or ignorant in anyway.
I can see where you're coming but you really shouldn't try to force your opinions on others and then call them names if they don't agree with you. As I said it stinks for people to try to demaand that everything should be tailored just for them.

As for elitism? I play consoles myself too. Games like Halo and UT3 are quite fun occasionally.

I've played 4 multiplayer games so far. 2 have had drops (1 person had to go, and others didn't want to stop, and 1 person just disconnected without reason, and didn't come back to the lobby). The other 2, were 1v1, and the other person didn't show up the following night like they were supposed to.

With 4 attempts at MP so far, (~9 hrs) I have yet to finish a multi-player game. It always comes down to those two issues. Some people want to stop playing, or some people don't show up.

That's going to happen with any game that stretches out over multiple nights. I've had it happen in Slower games of Civ, etc.

But that's not the real problem. The real problem is that, on a small map, with 1vs1, I'm sitting there watching the queue progress. Even if the game goes into multiple sittings. It's still too slow.

I keep saying this over and over again. This game has a ton of "make managing a REALLY large empire very easy" assists. Those assists also make it really easy to manage a small empire (like you would have in a SMALL map). This means that once you learn the game and UI, on small maps, you sit there waiting for the game to make your moves.

Think about all the ways that the game makes it easier for you, Left Hand menu, auto fleet join, rally points, auto colonize, auto explore, Auto ability use, Construction Queues, Research Queues, etc.


Are you trying to tell me "Well don't play on small maps?" or on small maps "Don't use those automation/Make it easy features?"

I'd agree if this were the case. So far in MP there hasn't been a single dull moment in the game especially if you are specifically trying to wrap thing up quickly. (I play all my games in normal speed)

Nowadays a in a medium sized map my games usually take 1-3 hours, which I still think is -very- manageable. You can wrap thing up even faster if you put everything on fastest settings.

EDIT: the only instance I have had to wait are some larger distances with ships slowly jumping the phase lines.