Scouts have light armor and do anti-light damage. They're a great and unexpected way to fight off early LRM spam (because you can get an awful lot of scout vessels of any sort) but they're absolutely toasted if they go up against flak or regular light frigates or carriers with fighters (basically anything with medium or heavy armor that can do a good amount of damage to lightly armored craft). The suicide ability isn't bad, but it requires a lot of micromanagement and it expects that your opponent hasn't prioritized anti-scout vessel ships to fight off your scouts before they get there to kamikaze themselves.

This isn't to say that there's no use for them. They're quite handy in the right situations, as you've discovered. I just would not base a core component of my strategy around them.

Dude he's talking about the suicide ability, martyrdom.

I see where your logic is heading, but... I mean, yeah, assuming you have around 6-8,000 credits to throw about, and 30-40 supply to waste, yeah, you might be able to ice a cap ship fairly quickly. But with that same amount of resources, you could've built a capital ship yourself, or made a serious addition to your fleet.

It's a great tactic, and now that you mention it I might try it, but it's a wild-card maneuver, not a strategy. Suicide units are always strategically inferior to regular units because their damage potential, by it's nature, is limited. Units that persist have effectively, an infinite damage potential.

Not to mention that Martyrdom is what, like tier five or six?

Yeah, people will be bitching about it for sure, nobody likes losing a cap ship to scouts. But it's not going to be anybodys uber strat. I think though, that it's just about perfect for what you used it for there. It would be worthwhile to tag along a fleet of scout ships a jump behind your main fleet, out of enemy eyes... Then once you engaged and got his attention, jump in the kamikaze fleet and ice one of his cap ships, maybe cripple a second... Keep in mind that once you select a group of units, hitting 'tab' lets you select the next one in the formation... And martyrdom probably has a hotkey... So that should make things easier. I think they'd be even better at taking out other stuff, like carrier cruisers and support vessels and such. What a poetic way to pwn a carrier fleet... But you'd really have to catch somebody with their pants down.

So, not an uber strat, but an awesome wild-card. I'm sure that if a player is paying attention and knowledgeable he could probably neutralize a great deal of an assault of that nature, but it seems like if you were intelligent about the execution it would be nigh impossible to defend against it entirely. But there is no way that could be your main strategy, I mean it would have to be an axillary tactic for sure.

Glad you brought it up!

Interesting tactic. The kind of ability I tend to ignore, but you're right to try to get a use out of it. I played a random map the other night where there were no Ice planets for some reason in my starting star system. Lots of cash --> scout armada? Could be worth it in some situations.

This is a good tactic since you can do a lot of damage in a very short time, surprising your opponent and making it tough to retreat. Also probably a great way to take out repair bays, although again, TEC scouts are better at assault structures.

No, they set explosives on the target structure and are then free to do whatever they want. The bombs go off only after a few seconds of delay and the ability cool-down is long, but the scouts don't get killed unless there is a large enough number of fighters/turrets defending the planet.

Makes for a quick way to satisfy diplomacy requests involving civic structures too. Or in a pinch, tactical structures.

Hmmn. Lots of interesting tactical possibilities with the Arcova's ability:

1. On a map where the big limiting factors are metal/crystal, the TEC cash-generating economy with trade ports and the arcovas' 2-point logistics requirement makes a small fleet of Arcovas practically free.

2. My understanding is that scout ships are the fastest non-strike craft in the game. A little fleet of 10 arcovas could do a deep strike of multiple jumps, past the border worlds to take out labs and culture structures at the more-logistics-slots internal worlds that typically have them.

3. Nice quick way to take out multiple cultural stations that otherwise prevent your colonization or threaten to de-colonize one of your border worlds.

4. Interesting addition to a "fire sale" quick strike (everything must go...) against enemy infrastructure: LRM unit takes down SD platform defenses at the close edge of the gravity well from outside their range; Percheron bombers take out whatever's currently being built, followed by repair structures and hangars; arcovas take out labs, culture, and trade ports; and an accompanying Sova carrier with embargo steals the production from the gravity well. It would be (A) annoying as heck, and ( low risk, since everything but the arcovas probably stays high in the gravity well, near a retreat lane, and the arcovas would be all over, and running fast and last, once the large defensive fleet jumps in, and might jump to the next enemy grav well to continue the carnage.

5. Makes for an interesting reconaissance in force play: 10 arcovas jump through the enemy space gathering real time intel until they find vulnerable lab/culture/trade port structures, then go active.

Martyrdom takes out ships as well as structures, making it useful on defense in fleet engagements as well.

By contrast, timed explosive only takes out structures, not ships. But it's available earlier in the research tree and doesn't destroy the scout ship using it. The repeatablity adds an additional annoyance/dimension to the threat.

It seems like a small number of arcovas could tie up a large fleet of chaser ships, especially if (A) there were few or no fighters on defense or the fighters were suppressed, ( the arcovas were retreated until the LONG cooldown period passed, then jumped in again to repeat, and (C) after travelling together (perhaps with flak frigate support) the arcovas split up for attacks on multiple structures, maybe even in multiple gravity wells. An arcova attack at the same time as a pirate raid could be especially useful, since the arcovas and the pillagers are both high value targets for the limited number of fighters on defense.

TEC economy seems to excel in generating income early and mid game, once the trade ports are up and linked, making it easier for the TEC player to support building the arcovas, and the way it fits with the other TEC tools for an anti-facility strike (embargo, LRMs, bombers) makes the arcova version more interesting to me.

[edited: Per the notes on timed explosives extracted from the game, the arcova's timed explosive ability has a zero antimatter cost, but a 900 cooldown period.]

https://www.sinsofasolarempire.wikia.com/wiki/Timed_Explosives

The repreatability, earlier tech availability, and the way it works with the early cash economy advantage of a TEC player and stacks with the other elements of a TEC infrastructure strike force (Sova embargo, LRM ranged attack on SD platforms, bomber raids) all make the arcova version of this sound more interesting to me.

... the TEC timed explosives has a REALLY long cooldown though AND its what, tier 5? Your not gonna get that early game. Also unless you REALLY micro them they tend to overkill on structures (I saw like 13 get used on a turret one time cause it was the nearest thing after the refinery).

Timed Explosives:

Tier 3 Military technology(not tier 5!).
1200 damage per bomb, detonates after 15 seconds.
900 seconds cool-down(15 minutes!!!).

5 bombs is enough for a guaranteed kill against anything except for a Refinery, a Matter Processor(Vasari refinery) or an Advent Hangar Defense structure. For those structures, you may need up to 7 bombs. And it's easier to micro Timed Explosives than it is to do so for Martyrdom. It's useful, but not something to rely on given the huge cool-down.



That sucks. 20 Seekers cost 4000 cash! It only seems to be worth it if you're REALLY low on crystal and can't buy some cruisers instead, or a new capital ship. At least those are re-usable, but 20 Seekers are nothing but a bunch of throwaway missiles.

I don't feel it really adds confusion, I target by highlighting over the side panel and seeing which units highlight to tell if there near my ships so I don't have to run to shoot at them. I never target seekers. They don't really hurt.

So you're saying that it would be easier to scuttle the scouts after the attack and build new ones than to wait 15 minutes for the old scouts to reload. That would take 15-75 seconds depending on how many factories you put on the task + a bit more cash + transit time.

Sounds effective, not giving the enemy time to rebuild. The first strike could knock out key military installations like hangars, factories, shield generators, phase stabilizers, military labs etc. and the second strike would tear down trade ports, culture buildings, civil labs, etc., and they would then be followed with a siege force or Marza to bombard the surface. Combined with a Sova Carrier with Embargo and Heavy Fighters(for somewhat effective air cover), and you've got a guerrilla raiding force that makes the Insurgency Rebels look like clowns(they are anyway) and the Pirates look like rookies. 5 scouts take up only as much supply as a single Kodiak and the buildings they kill(except for defense turrets and metal/crystal extractors) are always more expensive than they are.

Advent scouts can blow themselves up... TEC scouts can blow other things up... but what does the Vasari scout get? Phasic cloaking, which I beleive stops it from moving. It can't be attacked though and I've only ever gotten it once, but it didn't seem good for much. Maybe putting a scout somewhere it can stay perminatly cloaked somewhere to provide unlimited intelligence?