That's true, but we're discussing rush strategies. It's unlikely you'll face "100000000000 billion" flak ships during the rush stage.

Right. 13 DPS with 1140 combined hull/shield and please take note that light frigs have only a forward firing arc against 5 DPS and 1,425 combined hull/armor.
Also since sentinels have 175 hull more they're getting more from the hull upgrade.

Are light frigs better against flak? Yes, yes they are. Are they nearly as comparable light frig vs flak as flak vs lrm? nope. Flaks slaughter LRMS, light frigs BARELY out-kill flaks especially when you're microing.

Light frigs kill flaks 1.5:1 or 2.5:1 at best, depending on the micro. 40 Flak frigs(which cost less) than 40 LRMS will kill the lrms with just less than half a dozen ships if you micro them.
A big disadvantage of lrms is that you can't really micro them. They turn slow as hell, they only fire forwards.
Light frigs also only fire forwards aswell, however they turn and accel fast, and also move fast.

Not that flak are overpowered or anything, they're fine. All the ships are fine. This is one of the most well balanced games I've ever seen at launch/so early on.

Play me 1v1 with one of your awesome balanced strategies. I can get online anytime.

I won't even start off with a strong strat.

I'm pretty sure anything will beat you pretty easily.

make sure you post the reply, im sure from an almost scientific point of view we like evidence that there either is or is not an 'uber unbeatable' strategy

I've never lost a 1v1.

I don't think this game will be any different.

If I have LRMs and you have flak, I will ignore your flak and kill your cap, then fly around and kill your other structures, meanwhile pumping out more ships. Flak doesn't kill lrms nearly as quickly as you think. You keep going on about flaks having 5 dps against light frigs. That's only if all arcs are firing. Unless your opponent surrounds your flaks, or spreads them out into a wide semi circle, they won't be using all their guns.

Anyways, you should play against HuntingX. He has good micro and is great at RA rushing (with partners) and LRM rushing. Have you ever considered that the people you've played against who LRM rush simply aren't good at lrm rushing?

You did tie one though ^^

2. many of the caps have weapons on all sides, so this isnt unique to the kol.
3. please check again, theres at least another two effective cap abilities that work against fighters/bombers (maybe you could say 3, but one isnt as effective).
4. there is an ability that reduces armour by 6.



This is not really whats going on, it has 5 dps from 4 sides, meaning that if theres no target on each side and only in the front its dps is actually 5 dps vs light armoured units. In smaller fleet battles you would usually get ~2 targets (under 1.5 from tests, but assuming you positioned them well) at most on average through out the battle = 2.5 dps vs non light/verylight and in the case of attacking a structure which isnt next to anything else, the dps from the flaks is 1.25 dps. Basically 15 flaks do about the same dps vs a single structure surrounded by nothing as one LRM does to it.

flaks dps becomes better, once light armoured fleets become larger and more scattered (can hit 3-4 targets) and if theres a necessity of moving while attacking.

I wouldnt mind if they nerfed the dps from weapons with multiple arcs by 20%-30%, but let them rotate around and all focus on one arc, it would improve caps, flaks and illums.

i'd like to clarify that someone who is 'good' at lrm rushing isn't necissarily good at the game, they just know how to micro and understand what ships to avoid and what order of ships to focus fire on... all of this knowledge can be gained from a 'trial and error' process

i'd like to see mass LRMs (with a few cap ships of course) stand up against an advent fleet with 10 guardians, 15 subjucators, 40 aeria drone hosts, a dozen desciples, and a few cap ships

You kind of miss the point. lrm exceeds especially at early game rushing. The point of doing lrm is that they don't yet have their late game ships. You're suggestion of using a mid-late game strategy versus an early game strategy seems odd.

Micro is most important in Advent fleet, when they are playing defensive. You turn stuff on autocast and you might run out of antimatter and die. You may also need micro to defeat a defensive Advent fleet.

HuntingX, go on the sins irc its easier to get a game going that way


No you won't.

Right, because I'm a computer and can't actually pick my targets.

/sarcasm

Guys, tell us how the game goes. I certainly would like to know how it plays out.

I was saying your LRMS won't kill my caps or buildings, not that you can't actually target.

Oh and we're just going to 1vs1 now (assuming he comes back..) Not see his amazing unbeatable RA, since he of course isn't going to RA in 1vs1 which is understandable.

I don't have someone I know to 2vs2 tonight but tomorrow probably.

http://rapidshare.com/files/97134038/1v1_inno.record.html

His cap ship did well at the start as he had a free fighter, but mana burn + fast attack + assailants spam eventually crushed him.

Watch as you will.

Still undefeated.

BTW, inno needs a 2v2 partner so we can 2v2, any takers?

well the biggest thing was that i gave up that feild and forgot to upgrade my asteroids infrastructure until late as you can see in the income at score at the end(was to focused on other things.)
But it's the 2vs2 when you do your RA rush that's going to mean something

While i dont think RA is a "win button" its still an amazing tool. Even if you have only 1 or 2 on all your planets it really helps with unit production. Once i get to a decent ammount of phases i almost completely stop unit production (except for an occasional spam of necessary units such as planet bombers or more defense vessels). Instead all of my resources go to boosting my units strengths and the effectiveness of my economy. In the mean time, my opponents are forced to spam as much units as possible to stop an almost endless ammount of units coming from my DA. DA becomes even more effective once you get your units armor/shield/weapons at maximum.

To counter a efficient RA is to attack the phases early before they start getting the units out. if you dont, the meat shield of defenders will give them all the time they need to keep spamming away all the units.

Even better is once you reach the fleet cap the phases just sit there with full antimatter waiting for a chance to spawn more units.

Rushing to RA is foolish because you leave yourself wide open to any good fleet, however when used effectively and with good military upgrades it is definitely a force to be reckoned with.

Besides having a phase on all planets is great for defense. Being able to jump to any planet from any planet is perhaps the most useful ability in the game. You might as well have DA to go along with them.

And hey huntingx i would like to play you sometime.

The thing is, you were going on and on about how LRM spam sucks. HunterX went LRM spam and you couldn't counter it. In fact, it looks like you tried to counter it with LRM's of your own. Weren't you praising flaks as the holy grail to stop LRM spams?

If inno needs a partner,i'd be more then glad to help him,i've played him twice before(once as ally and once as opponent)

This is Tarin btw Prince


Oh yeah,my schedule isn't exactly stable,but come friday/saturday/sunday i'm fairly positive that i can find time.

Theres lots of factors you're missing.

Well the point is, he LRM spammed you. True, you made some mistakes, but if LRM spam "sucks" and was so easy to counter those mistakes would have been negligible in the big picture. The fact is that LRM spam, in capable hands, is the rush strategy of choice because there's not much that can be done against it.

Face it, the game is simply not balanced in its current state. RA is imba and LRMs are imba.

The Kol is a capital ship. Capital ships are NOT 'advanced warships'. They do not need to be researched - they only need crews. And unlike other ships that can only get bonuses and new abilities from research, capital ships get that stuff from simply surviving through enough battles. What I meant by 'advanced warships' are cruisers, LR frigates and flak frigates.

They're weaker than their Advent and Vasari analogs and more so with technology bonuses added in. They use less supply than Vasari ships, but Vasari ships also deal more firepower, have better upgrade abilities, and are much harder to kill with more mobility, equal armor, more durable hulls, better shields and better repair capabilities. They are cheaper than Advent ships and their upgrades are cheaper, but Advent ships are harder for TEC ships to kill than vice versa because Advent Shields > TEC Armor and Advent firepower > TEC firepower. And TEC strike craft are no match for Advent or Vasari strike craft no matter what the tech level is.

My apologies. Thank you for clarifying. That being said, you are correct about TEC non-cap ships. It is understandable considering that an overwhelming number of TEC vessels were not originally designed for combat and had been retrofitted post Vasari invasion. As far as which race has better upgrade abilities, I think thats more subjective than based on any factual evidence. Furthermore, I don't find Advent or Vasari ships difficult to kill at all. With a targeting uplink mod, my heavily armored flaks chance to hit bombers is 100% and 85% on fighters with a 20% range increase. I just keep my fighters docked until the skies are clear. As such, the performance disparity between the TEC strike craft vs Advent/Vasari is negated. Bottom line is the game is a wonderful balancing act.