I wouldn't mind a command ship of sorts for both sides, with some sort of nifty aura. UNSC get a Command Aura with increased armor and faster cooldown on abilities/weapons, Covenant get a Fanaticism Aura with increased damage and AM regen

BTW SpardaSon21 do you think the "slipspace" ability would be good idea for the UNSC in the Halo mod even though it would only work out for the Covies in 7DS? I certainly think adds a greater tactical element to the game. Perhaps we just make the UNSC have to research it.

For those of you just reading this post and wondering what I'm talking about: Right before CaptnKeyes went on vacation, he sent me an ability file merely called "slipspace". It allows a unit to phase to any planet that has ever been scouted, thus making sure you keep he enemy from reaching your home planet more of a necessity. It usually comes under constant attack after being found by the enemy  We (me and sparda) were discussing the role it would play in 7DS without breaking 7DS and making the UNSC overpowered.

Hmm. I've done some reading, and I've noticed quite a bit of discussion on how the balances should work out. Thought I'd add in my own opinion here

I was wondering about the possibility of using two different versions here - one as a separate mod, using the same ships and models, building schemes, researches and etc. But, this one would be balanced as the halo universe version - one more true to the actual game, without the issues of balancing with other races.

Then, with simple modifications to stats, you could rebalance it towards the 7DS version.

Would this be a possibility, or would it be too much work to be worth it? I would be willing to assist, though my own time is slightly limited.

an ability that does both dinoff

an ability that does both

and UNSC should be able to build stealth cruisers like the point of no return that can cause like 6 nuclear mines to explode around target enemy every so often and that would be a command and control ship for UNSC

Well the canon mod will be released as the official Halo mod. Lately we have just been arguing about how well that would fit in Seven Deadly Sins. As I have already given permission for them to merge it when it is released.

well All_Under_Heaven is somewhat right. UNSC prowlers were able to place pinpoint nuculear minefields (around 30 or so mines)but their larger counterparts were geared toward command support rather than tatical assult.

WAIT! you wanted a UNSC command criuser, the Point Of No Return is perfect for that!!! if canadaman777 wanted to make it,it would be just about the size of the destoryer and can have a researchable ability (i.e. for reaserching this criuser prototype the Spartan II Project becomes researchable)

just another thought

Wait, let me get this straight. The slipspace ability basicly removes phase lanes? If you know where the planet is, you can go to it? From one planet on the far left of the system, to one on the far right, with a straight shot?

If that is the case, you'll have to find a new way for planets to be discovered. Since if we have phase lanes, then the covies just send a scout all across the phase lanes till they find your planet, and then jump from their homeworld, right to yours. And there's very little you can do to stop it.

The only possible solution, which really doesn't work, would be to allow you to slipstream into wild space, and just sit outside of gravity wells. This way you have to manually look for planets, and also allows UNSC ships to do random jumps so you can't follow them.

But with the sheer size of Sins, that would just be totally out of the question, I mean not all planets are even on the same axis, and then they could be so spread out. You'd never find a planet. So ultimately, I just don't know how you could balance this slipstream ability.

i would imagine that this is a late game research and that the planet still has to be found before it con be jumped to from anywhere this also means that whomever has more planets scouted can make a jump and not be chased as long as the other person doesnt know where hes going. my opinion is that this should also be very expensive research

Yeah but, from my experiance, by the time you get into the lategame you've found all planets anyways. You just send out scouts who zip around and find every planet before the other players could form any sort of defense to stop them. So by the time this ability is researched, both sides would allready know where every planet is.

So, essentially, you can't balance this out. If the Covenant get it before the humans have lots of SMAC's around ALL their planets, the Covenant win. If the UNSC gets it, it just sends some suicide siege ships to bomb their most heavily populated worlds to dust from outer space, destroying Covenant credit income and letting the UNSC gain the upper hand through their much more powerful economy and massive industrialization. I'm guessing black marketeers don't like working with the Covenant, so selling metal/crystal will be hard for them to do.

You simply can't balance this.

We'll see.

actually i believe that as long as we remove scout from the covies then they dont have a means of rapid exploration. there are ways to balance this out itll just take something creative or really simple. make the inter star phase jumping a later research. then the scouts cant reach other planets immediatly and then the ai cant find everything right off the bat. there is some solution out there

What about single star maps where the players don't need interstellar phase jump research? And with the Covenant having no scout, are you suggesting we remove scouting completely, including the Explore ability? Balancing this so neither side has an unfair advantage with this will be next-to-impossible .

Sparda's right, you just can't make it work. Even if you did remove scouts, both sides would just make the next cheapest thing, probably a frigate, and use those to scout. Would you then suggest we remove frigates? You would need a way that it was hard to find planet, like my suggestion earlier of removing lanes entirely. But that makes it TOO hard.

has no one here downloaded the "phase scouts" mod cuz to me this slipstream ability sounds exactly like it. u send ur scout ships around and they have the ability to make a permanent phase stabalizer node on any planet they visit so u can bypass phase lanes and jump straight to a target.

That's exactly what he's trying to do. However, with the very asymmetrical balance this mod will have, that won't work very well. One side has ultra-powerful ships and the other side has ultra-powerful defenses. However, it is quicker to get ships than defenses, so as soon as the UNSC is found, they are pretty much dead.

Now, in Halo canon, that wasn't so bad because finding humanity's planets wasn't very easy. Here, all that needs to be done is following phase lanes. So, whoever finds first, and attacks first, wins. It's like the Sova Embargo rush. There's no good way to stop it.

actually ive used the phase scout mod and the ai doesnt use it either effectively or at all. the ai even in a small map the ai doesnt use the stableizer nodes. so if theres no possible way of balancing this one out then i recomend using the direct phase jump mod since the ai doesnt use it.

You're missing the point. Even if the AI doesn't use it, PLAYERS will. And that's the main thing I'm concerned about, since AI are too stupid to be a threat. But a player.... will abuse this feature so hard. So unless a way to balance this can be thought of, I say leave it out.

ok i agree there colt. human players will abuse this. however i think that if we include a version with and a version without in the final release that it would keep fans, cannon junkies,(and myself)happy.

What about slowing down scout ships to the speed of, say a light frigate?

Removing the ability to auto-scout might also balance these scouts.

In halo ships I imagine would move a lot slower so I say that we put every ship at 75% of their normal speed, and the scout ship no faster than a light frigate, or make a longsword faster than a scout, thus if a covenant scout appears you have a chance to shoot it down.

In my opinion the halo mod would function best with a Multi system map. Requiring someone to research Long range jumps and eliminating functionable wormholes would also be pretty good.

thats what im thinking would be the main balancing agent but as canada said we should wait and see

To be honest once you encompass everything this game really isnt that hard to balance, your all just thinking too hard

Though if you wanted to make it really easy to balance you would have to have a set of custom maps to go with it that would keep man kind and the covenant far from each other.

On other notes, phase lanes will still play an important part regardless of slipspace capability (in which only covenant will have the ability to ignore in system phase lanes)

To be honest ive been absent from this thread while most of you tried to figure out how to get past some of the crap that keeps popping up. Im glad to see it near beta testing stages. If your having any trouble with balance canadaman just tell me all that you have already and ill give you my 10 cents on it

What happens If we just nerf the ability? Maybe give an advance warning when the enemy prepares to jump, and then double or triple the time it takes during the actual journey. Perhaps you could only do it once in a while or something. Once again, we'll see.

i like it, i really like it