Frogboy Frogboy

Sins 1.04 preview

▼

Sins 1.04 preview

from Sins Forums

As some of you know, 1.04 has been split into two updates in order to get an update out sooner that has taken recent feedback from players and evaluated what changes should be made.

Here is a preview of what we have:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sins of a Solar Empire v1.04 Changelist
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gameplay / Balance:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Market value changes:
 -Ratio of buy/sell is now 2:1 instead of 3:1.
 -Min price now 200 instead of 80.
 -Boom/crashes now last ~twice as long.

-Multiple instances of the Embargo planet debuff from the same player no longer stack.

- Capital ships
 -All non-Colony capital ship top speeds increased from 500 to 525.
 -All Colony capital ship top speeds increased from 400 to 475.

- Siege Frigates:
 -Build costs decreased by ~15%.

- Javelis, Illuminator, Assailant:
 -Linear acceleration decreased from 200 to 150.
 -Top speed decreased from 800 to 500.
 -Range decreased from 130% to 115% of 1.02 ranges.

- Illuminator:
 -Hull points increased from 520 to 620.
 -Shield points increased from 450 to 550.
 -Attack type changed from CAPITALSHIP to ANTIMEDIUM.
 -Front bank damage increased from 33.8 to 65.
 -Side banks damage decreased from 33.8 to 26.

- Defense Vessel:
 -Reduced cooldown by 45%, damage reduced proportionally to maintain DPS.
 -Fleet supply increased from 3 to 4.
 -Now properly benefits from Advent laser research topics.

-Attack types
 -AntiVeryLight chance to hit bombers decreased from 85% to 75%.
 -AntiVeryLight damage vs Light armor decreased from 100% to 75%.

-Map Balance of Power fixed to have less Heavies and populated desert worlds.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Graphics:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sound / Music:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
AI:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Fixed minor bug in Unfair AI not behaving quite correctly.
-Fix bug where AI would retreat from his homeworld or last planet.
-AI is likely to gang up on the leading player in Easy or Normal.
-Misc tweaks.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Networking / Multiplayer:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Fixed minor bug in ico-join game screen where fleet size display was incorrect.
-Improved in-game chat text entry:
 -Escape no longer clears the chat buffer when closing the window.
 -Sending whispers is remembered (don't have to retype the whisper when sending again).
 -Sending to allies is remembered (don't have to retype /a when sending again).
-Chat string and colors changed.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
UserInterface / HUD:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Fix map names for Backstab and Balance of power.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modding:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Entity name lookup is now case insensitve.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Misc:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Fix for saved games not respecting custom game options.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
End
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, bear in mind, this isn't the end-all be all update. The goal is to get something out, possibly this week and then do more later.

For single player games, the main change is in the computer AI not being quite so nasty at easy levels but being tougher at harder levels.

Most of the rest will affect multiplayer where unit balance between the 3 races is more sensitive.

199,951 views 222 replies
Reply #201 from Sins Forums Top
Umm... how is it that a capital ship moves faster than a light frigate? o.O
End of quote




More guys to row the oars...

T
Reply #202 from Sins Forums Top
Umm... how is it that a capital ship moves faster than a light frigate? o.O
End of quote


Accelleration = Force / Mass

Increase teh force applied (the engine strength) by more than the mass increases, and the ship moves faster. In space, you don't have to worry about friction.
Object Desktop - Get all of our enhancement utilities in one suite
Reply #203 from Sins Forums Top
I am happy about that. I kept losing cap ships because they are too slow. The only issue I see is someone going run happy with a carrier. But this is only a viable strat early game.
Reply #204 from Sins Forums Top
An improved AI/pathfinding should be nice for next patches. When you set a move order behind an enemy fleet the ship don't use 3D but the 2D plan. The ennemy ships are pushed by the ship(which is under under fire) instead to pass under/above (and may be disrupt some of the enemies that will have to turn to keep fire).
Reply #206 from Sins Forums Top
It still doesn't make sense. Name a single space genre where frigates were slower than battleships unless they were in light speed?

The engine for the frigate is just as big as the engine is for the cap in comparison.
Reply #207 from Sins Forums Top
It's not a game, but Star Wars?

Star Destroyers had a habit of racing behind smaller cruiser/frigate type vessels (even the Millennium Falcon, a small freighter characterized by it's speed). Despite their size they seemed more than capable of such speeds, if not maneuverability.

But for this game, I think it makes sense, at least. LRMs are currently quite strange, most people agree they're just much too strong, their ability to take down Capitals so fast by focus firing is one of them, and if it tries to run, they can easily chase is down, follow it between systems, do whatever is needed to kill the much more expensive unit then run off again. They're currently just so good at so many things, that taking away their ability to chase around other ships might help in some way.
Reply #208 from Sins Forums Top
Well, I can't jump a cap ship to light speed any better than a frigate. In fact, I'd take an instant jump ability... except they would annoy me when other people use them.
Reply #210 from Sins Forums Top
strictly speaking it's not at all unrealistic for a battleship to have a higher top-speed than a frigate.

In 20th century navies, a Battleship will get you from New York to London far faster than a frigate.

However, it may be wise for the game developers to look to the acceleration and maneuverability ratings of these ship models when balancing the game-play. In a small tactical battle ( like the planet battles of Sins ) , theoretical top-speeds play very little part, and it seems more intuitive that a frigate should be able to run circles around a battle-ship's line of fire.

Reply #211 from Sins Forums Top
strictly speaking it's not at all unrealistic for a battleship to have a higher top-speed than a frigate.In 20th century navies, a Battleship will get you from New York to London far faster than a frigate.However, it may be wise for the game developers to look to the acceleration and maneuverability ratings of these ship models when balancing the game-play. In a small tactical battle ( like the planet battles of Sins ) , theoretical top-speeds play very little part, and it seems more intuitive that a frigate should be able to run circles around a battle-ship's line of fire.
End of quote


LRMs will still rules supreme as the poster above me has touched upon.. Why? The Damage Type vs early game units (and even late game) and their Relative low cost is too attractive.

Speed doesn't really matter as much considering the range differences. Great - you can now outrun them.. and do what? you're not firing at them. Your fighters are getting torn up by 1-2 flak vessels that cost 1/4 of the price of your carriers..

There is a reason - that in every RTS, the "long range artillery" unit is the one that is costly, not very robust, and is usually completely crap against anything nearing the same cost - especially up close.

Sam W.
Reply #212 from Sins Forums Top
I wonder if a 10% increase to the cost of crystal for LRM's would slow the tide enough to make them easily managable, or at least make it hurt to spam them early on?
Reply #213 from Sins Forums Top
*error post*
Reply #214 from Sins Forums Top
Dude, I really hope the patch comes out soon... I've been putting of playing for it and I'm starting to develop a twitch....

Crossing fingers...

Transplatin
Reply #215 from Sins Forums Top
Dude, I really hope the patch comes out soon... I've been putting of playing for it and I'm starting to develop a twitch....Crossing fingers...Transplatin
End of quote


This is me waiting!!!

Reply #216 from Sins Forums Top
Wow looking over these changes, Advent will be worse off than before. Defense vessel will no longer be viable against LRM rushes, which was one of the only things preventing Advent from getting completely raped in the first 20mins. So now they will get raped in 10mins.

So illuminators are going to be anti-medium dmg instead of cap? It doesn't matter and the biggest reason it doesn't matter because its tier 3. Basically, a advent player will need to try to stay alive for the first 20mins. While saving resources to build 3 hostility temples and a fleet of illuminators to counter LRMs which are tier 3 and belong to a faction with a economical advantage. And with defense vessel damaged nerfed and supply increased getting to tier 3 against a good TEC or Vasari player is highly unlikely.

Why even bother having advent in the game if you make ridiculous changes like this? Culture is crap, which is suppose to be one of the main strengths of advent. Their economy is crap compared to the Vasari and TEC. As of 1.04 they will have no viable counter to cobalt and NOW lrm rushes earlier in game. The only thing I'd say they are missing now is Vaseline and a tree stump so they can bend over for Vasari and TEC players.

GG Ironclad, please save the trouble and just remove advent from the game. Maybe put them back in a expansion pack once you decided to actually want to fix them.
Reply #217 from Sins Forums Top
How can you mention their culture being crap and the economy being bad in the same breath? I mean, do you understand what culture does? Do you just not think that a 10-20-more% boost to the crystal/metal and credit income on every planet in your system is useful? Not to mention the maximum allegance boost, which is granted, tier absurd, but it has no pre-req.

The thing about reducing your income penalty by 10% is that you are actually boosting your resulting income from that planet by more then just ten percent. 100-110% is a ten percent increase, but 80-90% is a 12.5% increase. As the culture value gets lower, having more culture becomes more effective. Increasing the maximum allegiance by 10% can boost metal/crystal/credit income by around 15%, depending on how spread out the systems under your control are. I swear to you, this is better then a 15% boost to trade income. It takes a truly massive number of trade ports to exceed a full-population tax income, and it definitely requires a far greater monetary investment then a few culture centers and population upgrades.

Not to mention that an early start on culture can limit the planets that your enemy can effectively colonize, and later in the game, gives you excellent recon. Advent culture is a great advantage.

Advent may need some work militarily, and the lack of refineries and trade upgrades can hurt them considerably. The problem with culture is not that it is bad, but that it doesn't scale well during the late game. But to dismiss cultural bonuses out of hand as an irrelevant distinction is just wrong-headed.
Reply #218 from Sins Forums Top
How can you mention their culture being crap and the economy being bad in the same breath? I mean, do you understand what culture does? Do you just not think that a 10-20-more% boost to the crystal/metal and credit income on every planet in your system is useful? Not to mention the maximum allegance boost, which is granted, tier absurd, but it has no pre-req.The thing about reducing your income penalty by 10% is that you are actually boosting your resulting income from that planet by more then just ten percent. 100-110% is a ten percent increase, but 80-90% is a 12.5% increase. As the culture value gets lower, having more culture becomes more effective. Increasing the maximum allegiance by 10% can boost metal/crystal/credit income by around 15%, depending on how spread out the systems under your control are. I swear to you, this is better then a 15% boost to trade income. It takes a truly massive number of trade ports to exceed a full-population tax income, and it definitely requires a far greater monetary investment then a few culture centers and population upgrades.Not to mention that an early start on culture can limit the planets that your enemy can effectively colonize, and later in the game, gives you excellent recon. Advent culture is a great advantage.Advent may need some work militarily, and the lack of refineries and trade upgrades can hurt them considerably. The problem with culture is not that it is bad, but that it doesn't scale well during the late game. But to dismiss cultural bonuses out of hand as an irrelevant distinction is just wrong-headed.
End of quote


It doesn't matter, problem is Advent needs to invest a hefty amount of resources to get the communication temple. Resources they do not have in the beginning stages of the game. So its actually a backwards progression, since its not helping you move forward. If the communication tower was tier 1 then what you are saying would be plausible. However its tier 2, which would requires two harmony temples(more resources!). So that means you will be even more vulnerable to being annihilated by TEC and Vasari players. I already knew about the 10% eco resource bonus, but the way the game paces itself it forces Advent players to try to get a sizable fleet together in order to try(note the bold) to fend off a lrm and cobalt rush. So how does culture fit in? It doesn't give enough benefit to make it worth building earlier on over military forces, simply because it doesn't do enough to keep the enemy at bay. And yes I know that it also gives a +10% shield mitigation but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference either.

I can't say if you actually play the Advent in pvp or not. But the way culture is designed, its good on paper only. I would take tier 1 crystal and metal boost any day over tier 2 culture.



Reply #219 from Sins Forums Top
Given the longer than originally expected development time for 1.04, I would think the that original list of 'tweaks' is now outdated and possibly expanded....

Transplatin
Reply #221 from Sins Forums Top
Given the longer than originally expected development time for 1.04, I would think the that original list of 'tweaks' is now outdated and possibly expanded....
End of quote


Agreed.
Reply #222 from Sins Forums Top
And nothing about MP stability ???
End of quote


I think they said that 1.1 (the patch after 1.0.4) will have a completely new implementation of Multiplayer. Thats probably the patch with the fix you need.