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Sins 1.04 preview

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Sins 1.04 preview

from Sins Forums

As some of you know, 1.04 has been split into two updates in order to get an update out sooner that has taken recent feedback from players and evaluated what changes should be made.

Here is a preview of what we have:

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Sins of a Solar Empire v1.04 Changelist
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Gameplay / Balance:
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-Market value changes:
 -Ratio of buy/sell is now 2:1 instead of 3:1.
 -Min price now 200 instead of 80.
 -Boom/crashes now last ~twice as long.

-Multiple instances of the Embargo planet debuff from the same player no longer stack.

- Capital ships
 -All non-Colony capital ship top speeds increased from 500 to 525.
 -All Colony capital ship top speeds increased from 400 to 475.

- Siege Frigates:
 -Build costs decreased by ~15%.

- Javelis, Illuminator, Assailant:
 -Linear acceleration decreased from 200 to 150.
 -Top speed decreased from 800 to 500.
 -Range decreased from 130% to 115% of 1.02 ranges.

- Illuminator:
 -Hull points increased from 520 to 620.
 -Shield points increased from 450 to 550.
 -Attack type changed from CAPITALSHIP to ANTIMEDIUM.
 -Front bank damage increased from 33.8 to 65.
 -Side banks damage decreased from 33.8 to 26.

- Defense Vessel:
 -Reduced cooldown by 45%, damage reduced proportionally to maintain DPS.
 -Fleet supply increased from 3 to 4.
 -Now properly benefits from Advent laser research topics.

-Attack types
 -AntiVeryLight chance to hit bombers decreased from 85% to 75%.
 -AntiVeryLight damage vs Light armor decreased from 100% to 75%.

-Map Balance of Power fixed to have less Heavies and populated desert worlds.


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Graphics:
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Sound / Music:
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AI:
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-Fixed minor bug in Unfair AI not behaving quite correctly.
-Fix bug where AI would retreat from his homeworld or last planet.
-AI is likely to gang up on the leading player in Easy or Normal.
-Misc tweaks.


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Networking / Multiplayer:
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-Fixed minor bug in ico-join game screen where fleet size display was incorrect.
-Improved in-game chat text entry:
 -Escape no longer clears the chat buffer when closing the window.
 -Sending whispers is remembered (don't have to retype the whisper when sending again).
 -Sending to allies is remembered (don't have to retype /a when sending again).
-Chat string and colors changed.


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UserInterface / HUD:
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-Fix map names for Backstab and Balance of power.


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Modding:
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-Entity name lookup is now case insensitve.


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Misc:
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-Fix for saved games not respecting custom game options.


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End
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Now, bear in mind, this isn't the end-all be all update. The goal is to get something out, possibly this week and then do more later.

For single player games, the main change is in the computer AI not being quite so nasty at easy levels but being tougher at harder levels.

Most of the rest will affect multiplayer where unit balance between the 3 races is more sensitive.

199,941 views 222 replies
Reply #51 from Sins Forums Top
if u didnt change the damage type of illuminator ur only choice would be to change damage type of something else advent have.

And no minimum range is a terrible idea.
Reply #52 from Sins Forums Top
Thinking about it more it does seem like a bad idea, I just always considered the LRFs as the real world equivalent of artillery and missile batteries. You can't very well fire those at point-blank range.

Then again reality doesn't make for good gameplay, so like I said earlier don't take that suggestion worth a grain of salt.

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #53 from Sins Forums Top
I will bet anyone Ten Internet Dollars* that LRMs are still going to be overpowered in 1.04.


*Internet Dollars redeemable for nothing
Reply #54 from Sins Forums Top

It just seems like there needs to be one more unit in the game. A low tier unit with anti light damage, like the scount but better. But then there would need to be a counter for that..maybe the assault frigate?  :SURPRISED: 
Reply #55 from Sins Forums Top
Actually, LRMs now have a very logical counter, and that counter is the scout! Scouts will be twice as fast as LRMs so they won't be able to run away from them.

Which leads me to my first of two complaints. The Vasari scout is underpowered for its cost, (50% more supply and around more 30% resources than other scouts) but it still has less armor and combined hull/shield(650 and 1.5) than the Advent scout(825 and 2). Make it 300/325/1.5 H/S/A for Advent and 575/275/2 for Vasari.

Second complaint is about planetary defenses. I do understand that the developers hate turtling, but the turrets/hangars are quite frankly, completely useless. They need a large boost to their stats to even make people consider using them. Give them +75% boost to range and damage, make the damage Composite, and 30% boost to hull and armor for turrets. Hangars should house 5 squadrons (8 for Advent).

Other than that, it's a very good game. Keep up the good work!
Reply #56 from Sins Forums Top
- Siege Frigates:
-Build costs decreased by ~15%.
End of quote


Won't really help them since they'll still take a huge toll on fleet size.

-Top speed decreased from 800 to 500.
End of quote


Wow. Now the 6 carriers(3 caps & 3 cruisers) can actually outrun LR frigates, making Fighter attacks more effective. And the anti-capital deadliness of LRFs goes out the window as well now that we'll have Kols actually being able to simply fly away from Javs at will(without getting chased down and assassinated as before).

The low speed, low durability aspect now makes LRFs directly analogous to self-propelled howitzers. Light frigs being mechanized infantry, heavy cruisers being main battle tanks, support cruisers being engineers, etc.

- Illuminator:
-Hull points increased from 520 to 620.
-Shield points increased from 450 to 550.
-Attack type changed from CAPITALSHIP to ANTIMEDIUM.
-Front bank damage increased from 33.8 to 65.
-Side banks damage decreased from 33.8 to 26.
End of quote


With 620 Hulls + 550 Shields + 2 Light Armor + Deceptive Illusion, Illuminators will be tough targets. They'll also be doing 10 DPS from the front-mounted particle beam, and 4 DPS from each of the side-mounted beams, that too, with a more powerful and more versatile damage type than they had before.

Since they still have much shorter range(5520) compared to the Jav and Kanrak, but much higher durability and multiple weapons, Illuminators can't really be classified as "Long-Range Frigates". They're something more like "Heavy Frigates" instead. Or "Destroyers".

- Defense Vessel:
-Reduced cooldown by 45%, damage reduced proportionally to maintain DPS.
End of quote


The higher shot frequency makes them more Flak-like(i.e, like the Garda). Makes them more effective against strike craft since a missed shot now means less of a damage loss.

-Attack types
-AntiVeryLight chance to hit bombers decreased from 85% to 75%.
-AntiVeryLight damage vs Light armor decreased from 100% to 75%.
End of quote


Flaks' effectiveness in shooting Fighters remains unchanged by this. But against Bombers, flaks are now clearly superseded by Fighters.

Fighters use AntiLight damage, not AntiVeryLight, and so their hit chances and damage are not affected at all by this small nerf. Since LRMs have been slowed down to the point that they can no longer catch and kill Carrier Cruisers and Capital Carriers, it all rounds up to a buff for Fighters. They now become superior hard counters against Bombers and LR Frigates.

In fact, Fighters will now be better than flak at everything except for the destruction of other fighters. The extra effectiveness well makes up for the extra cost and supply requirement of Carrier Cruisers.

I will bet anyone Ten Internet Dollars* that LRMs are still going to be overpowered in 1.04.*Internet Dollars redeemable for nothing
End of quote


Now the counters to Javelis/Kanrak missile frigates is obvious. Here they are:

TEC - Javelis LRM Frigate (LRM vs. LRM)
Vasari - Kanrak Assailant (LRM vs. LRM)
Advent - Aeria Drone Host (Carrier vs. LRM)

The TEC/Advent counters are available at Tier 2 Military/Hostility. The Vasari counter is available at Tier 1 Warfare. The shiny tin-can Aerias needn't worry about getting shot up now since they can just outrun enemy LRMs.
Reply #57 from Sins Forums Top
Deleted double post.

The Sins and GalCiv2 forum are both severely spammed with double posts now. The Stardock forum system must have something seriously wrong with it... my first post ended in a "problem loading page", so I hit Refresh and ended up sending the post again.
Reply #58 from Sins Forums Top
theyre finaly fixing the illuminator ;D

no more capital ship tagging
Reply #59 from Sins Forums Top
TEC - Javelis LRM Frigate (LRM vs. LRM)
Vasari - Kanrak Assailant (LRM vs. LRM)
End of quote


This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. I mean, not because of what you posted, but because it's the dumbest attempt to balance the LRM ever. "When all fails, make the unit counter itself!". The carrier thing seems better though.
Reply #60 from Sins Forums Top
yeah I don't see why some people are saying that carriers are underpowered

I don't see how you're supposed to catch up to them now! They seem very good to me....
Reply #61 from Sins Forums Top
Honestly, I think this is a step in a good direction. I'm sure the original design of the game was for flaks to be used to just take out strikecraft and not as tanks to go up against LRMs. I'm quite certain that IronClad/Stardock are trying to move the units in the direction that they originally envisioned their usage.

They want people to build carriers/scouts to kill LRMs
They want people to build flak to kill strikecraft
They want people to build light frigates to kill carriers
They want people to build LRM's to kill light frigates and be used somewhat like artillery.

Although the changes don't include everything necessary to ensure this formula, it looks very obvious to me that they are trying to incrementally balance the game into that direction.

The market change is a huge win and that was honestly the biggest problem last patch. Flak no longer is the soft counter to LRM. Change your strategies, people.
Reply #62 from Sins Forums Top
This patch is going in the right direction, there are still more changes that need to be done to go from a grossly unbalanced game to a reasonably balanced one. The market change follows the suggestions given by players, which is great. Many changes seem to come from players because they indirectly affect balance (it's not just randomly changing numbers around, which is good), so they have the real gameplay in mind.

I still think strikecraft need more work, and capital ship speeds have a few problems, with the sova carrier being the most important. Maybe make embargo slow down the thing. Guardians also need repulsion buffed so lrms cannot just outrange it. Subverters also need to be looked at for balancing.
Reply #64 from Sins Forums Top
I'm sick and tired of the whining.

Peskyfly, I've refrained from calling you out, but I'll do so now. You respond to every post, as if your say matters at all. You think way too highly of yourself, and most of your posts are fundamentally wrong. I don't know who you're playing against or if you play the game at all, but you've been wrong on almost every count on almost every post you've ever made. You make hideous assumptions about game balance and stats, horrible ideas about micro and strategy, and you seem completely clueless about multiplayer Sins.

I think Jinx and Ganon have it right. The patch is not perfect, which apparently many forum goers want, but it's a solid step in the right direction.

I don't know how many patches it will take to completely balance the game, but EVERY SINGLE CHANGE the patch made, I agree with on some basic level. Which means, this is a great patch. You can't expect a small fast patch to fix everything, but if every change is reasonable and necessary, then it's a great patch.
Reply #65 from Sins Forums Top
Sorry bout that, Hunting. Tell me all the mistakes.
Reply #66 from Sins Forums Top
For the love of god can you be more incorrect. You'd think if you have the guts to post 90 times per day you'd bother to check your facts.

It's tier SIX, not tier 7. Which means among the HC specials, it's low level and low cost. Let's compare subverter special with other support cruisers like the command cruiser and whatnot. It's not even close. AOE stun? Shield reduction?

Vasari has serious problems with other areas of the game, so it's reasonable that subverters and RA are strong. But your reasoning is just horrible.

Your other statement, superweapons? Do you even think before you post?

Without looking at the game, can you give me the cost of a SINGLE novalith including research?

No you can't, because you're totally clueless about game mechanics. You just write up easy solutions that are almost always wrong.

A SINGLE novalith WITHOUT upgrades is 8000 credits ALONE. Including it's mineral costs it's closer to 11000. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE.

You have to upgrade EVERY SINGLE MISSILE TECH. It's closer to 25-30k credits. FOR A SINGLE NOVALITH. THAT'S your counter to subverters, a level 6 tech which requires TWO techs total?

Seriously man, learn the game.

*nice deletion of your previous post before I could respond to how ridiculously wrong it was.
Reply #67 from Sins Forums Top
Thanks again devs for all your work. I'm impressed with how speedily you manage to come out with new patches. I'm looking forward to the new one and continue to recommend your excellent game. Kudos.
Reply #68 from Sins Forums Top
I was hoping to see the particle disappearance bug be fixed. :(

Ah well, bring on 1.1 then.
Reply #69 from Sins Forums Top
Innociv, you always complain about Illuminators sucking.....they might have lost their special damage type, but they gained dps to compensate, and got a shield + structure boost, AND got better focused fire. They will do about the same against some things, but they are going to eat basic assault frigs alive now. How can you be unhappy, they got an overall boost?Defense vessels are still going to be effective at 4 supply. For a guy who complains incessantly about how OP Subverters are, you HAVE to acknowledge that Defense vessels were OP at 3 supply. I think the changes are good and we should see how it works out.
End of quote


I never complained about them sucking. YOu and Therlun both need to stop putting words in my mouth, you do it all the damn time.

I said they weren't good early game, but they where late game.

I don't think these changes are going to make them stand up to other lrms early game either but we'll see.
They'll be better against light frigs, for sure. But javs can kill assailants, assailants can kill javs.


And Defense vessals weren't overpowered. They where way better early game than sentinels, but so where assailants compared to illums. IT was variaty in the races ships.

The Defense vessals had the least survivability. But i guess it's not as bad as long as they're keeping being the highest dps and lowest cost.. :/
Reply #70 from Sins Forums Top
thanks for the efforts and the hard work that is very special.

and for some whines i dont discuss if are right or not(i have to play hardly to can)but i remember..i have played hardly warcraft 3,for one years the forum were "mass casters omg blizzard you havee ruin your game!!!"then frozen throne(for more than one year you read about gamebraking imbalance,blizzard you dont kow how to make games!!!....Now all the people says that its and example of great game(but if you read the forum many posts about tower imbalances and oter thing..where is the thruth so?
i have played civilization4,for somee times ther was a leak memory problem,all the people whines,i still plaaying company of heroes,after the whines about arty spam now ther are whines about one ability(strufing run.i played supremme commander,the whinee there are for the support of the game,and the poor patchs(because gives more money works for console),people say this.
I'v seen post in command and conquer,played from first red alert...especially in genereals there are whines,now in tiberium wars also whine(and the game is in...worldcybergame...before the retal,so..higly competitive multiplayeer no? ;) )

what i have to say is that appreciatee what this softhouse are making...that you dont find somtehing like this,not in many place,and make a patch its not simple,need alsyas works,tests,its not like"i change in one minute hp of this unit and the work is done.
So,its a good thing that peolpe says what in your opinion is to correct,adjust,cause helps to improve the games in future patch(and remember the patch are like presents..mh..is like you go in a bar and with cofffe the barman give you something else,like chocolate or a glass of water,and than you like this bar and you return in it for the service and the care abut the customer.

so its good to be constructive and grateful becuase nowadays you find quality games like this and support like this in very few games,very few,and i hope that writing at this speed in englush helps me to learn more english :P








Reply #71 from Sins Forums Top
And don't forget illums cost 75% more than javs, and 50% more supply.
Remember how much 1.03 insanely raised Illums price? It got a 15 crystal increase amongst other things (while javs where only increased 5 crystal).
And it got it's survivability nerfed by 80 or 120. So by getting buffed 200, it's really getting a 80 or 120 increase, not the 200 you think it is.

Their massive nerf to cost 1.03 was completely unfounded, completely uncalled for. It got a 37.5% increase in it's crystal cost when it was the cost lrm.

1.03 illums are really bad. You're comparing these new changes to them, not the good late game but still pretty bad early game 1.02 illums.


LRMsThey want people to build flak to kill strikecraft
End of quote


Well you know 10 flaks insta-gank a full advent squadrum, killing one of them once per second or two?
If you just have 5, then that's 2-4 seconds.

Flaks where fine against lrms and other ships. They where and still are extremely overpowered against strike craft.
Therse nothing wrong with them being the hardest counter in the game.. but it's just ridiculous.
A vasari bomber squad against 4 flaks.. will die in 6.5 seconds IIRC. They take 13.5 seconds to fire their second volley. That's every 6.5 seconds one bomber squad dies, just from 4 flaks, if I'm not mistaken.
In 1.04 with the nerfs to light and hte lss hit rate, it's still like 8s econds. It's not enough I'm sure.

And what do these few flaks cost compared to carriers?.. Yeah. Strikecraft need way more hp and flak needs lower hit rates.
Reply #72 from Sins Forums Top
Flaks where fine against lrms and other ships. They where and still are extremely overpowered against strike craft.
End of quote


I agree with you that strikecraft aren't as strong as they should be and are underpowered. However, also consider that strikecraft are out of flak range for the majority of the time and that carriers continue to build them even when shot down.

I think their first step was toning down LRMs. They'll probably follow this by looking at strikecraft and flak next. The way I see it, they nerfed flak to force people to use carriers and scouts against LRMs. They can then see how the game plays out after these changes and adjust carriers/strikecraft/flak accordingly.

The next thing I think needs immediate attention is Returning Armada. I'm glad they're balancing units, but they really need to do something about this ability. Now that Vasari is "back in the game" as far as their econ is concerned, RA is going to return again as an overpowered problem.
Reply #73 from Sins Forums Top
I'm glad they're balancing units, but they really need to do something about this ability. Now that Vasari is "back in the game" as far as their econ is concerned, RA is going to return again as an overpowered problem.
End of quote


Maybe I'm just really bad (yeah, probably) but actually getting RA and having the weapons techs to take advantage of it...it just seems to take a LOOOONG time. You need to actually build all the research labs while also running the rest of the empire.

I'm honestly curious how often it's a problem. Played a 4 person game last night against some clan mates and it was over long before I could have had RA live.

Maybe I'll look for an RA specific thread and try to separate wheat from chaff.... :)

Reply #74 from Sins Forums Top
Good changes. I think the min buy price in market should be even higher, 300 or 400. Buying crystals at 200 is a no brainer for most maps.

Double LRM jump time may also make sense, in addition to the in grav speed nerf.

Siege is still really bad. I never build them in 1.03 and probably wont in 1.04 either.
Reply #75 from Sins Forums Top
Getting to RA solo can be slow. Getting to RA if you have teammates protecting and feeding you resources can be pretty fast :P

Personally, the only change to it I'd consider is changing the weighting of the ships so it gives more Skirmishers/Assailants and fewer Transporters/Enforcers. The amount of supply points granted for the ships would probably have to be reduced a little so the average number of ships remains roughly the same.