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Hi Kruelgor,

I'm curious - how are you choosing the numbers of ships? I'm assuming that you're equating cost or supply or something.


c_c

Advent ships are weaker and more plentiful, period. Bombers suck against light units. Just use lots of units and fighters. That should get the job done.

For once, Kruelger is correct.

It's been well known that Tec vs Advent is just cobalt spamming. Advent, lacking anti-medium, cannot stop it. The new illuminator will change things dramatically.

Just team up with Vasari and have them use dark armada.   

Cool, that's what I'm hoping for.

Haha...easier said than done. I would like to see you try that against Huntingx. LOL!

No can do. I suck with advent anyway!   

Well, on the first one (Defense Vessels vs LRMs) I used TIME to produce. It takes equal time to produce those amount of ships. The other figures are just guestimates.

If you want me to test any scenario then let me know and I'll tell you the results.

Time is not that that big of a issue as you can build multiple frigate factories. Your scenario based on resource cost IMHO would prove more valuable, and guestimates are not very useful when you go beyond a few ships.

Advent ships tend to be cheap. But TEC overall is slightly OP right now.

So your whole comparison relies on two groups of spam units, completely ignoring the Advent's biggest advantages? Everyone knows the different Advent ships are best when used together so that their synergistic special abilities overlap and enhance one another.

The lack of anti-medium is an issue. However, the Advent LRM equivalent (illuminator) is still the cost effective counter, when positioned right (so as to employ more than 1 beam).

It's an interesting match-up: positioned right, it's a hugely cost-effective counter. Position wrong, and it's not a counter.

Abilities tend to be useless when you've got 70 some cobalts all focus firing... Believe me, I've been on the recieving end from my brother. Had 4 skinatras, staggering the healing aura, didn't do a darn thing...

Yes and no, somethings are cheaper yes. But the problem with the ship costs is the fact that the Advent are slow starters in all aspects of the game besides culture(which is completely useless). So even with cheaper ships a Advent player will still struggle with resources and fleet numbers due to not having a stable resource income. I think tier 3 is when you can get decent resource buffs and thats way to late, by that time its possible the enemy could of already wiped you out or take crucial planets need to develop your empire.

I've been playing advent since I got the game to get the full perspective of the faction. And I can say that they are underpowered. The problem is the inconsistent skill placements and the fact that their starting advantage (culture) has no desirable effect that makes them stand out from the other two factions. Offense wins the game, Advent doesn't have a consistent offense. If the faction is to become up to par with the TEC and Vasari a couple of things need to occur:

Culture will need to actually become useful. In its current form it makes a whole tree nearly useless for the advent since nearly half of the skills revolve around it.

Defense needs to become a viable strategy. With the way advent is designed, rushing is NOT a option. You will undoubtedly lose to Vasari and TEC forces due to superior income and superior initial military forces.

The skill trees need to be rearranged so they are progressive and not regressive. The problem with the Advent initially is a lot of the skills don't have any benefit that pushes you forward in the match. But rather puts you backwards due to spending resources on them. First tier skills need to be aggressive in nature since thats how matches start: You pushing forward. The Advent trees imo are horribly designed, they start out to passive and the game doesn't really support that type of gameplay. Even culture is a passive skill.

Just my thoughts.

the healing aura doesnt stack, next time actually use the appropriate counter to light frigates.


In reference to the tests in the OP.
most are extremely biased cost and supply wise towards the cobalts, e.g. compare the cost of 38 defense to 70 cobalts.

also unlike tec, advent/vasari actually get abilities that work extremely well vs mass units and in some combinations can wipe out over 100 cobalts instantly.

Kruelgor, I demand that you stop creating posts you fool. You're actually spreading you're misinformation to newbs who happen to get paired with me.

a proper test between disciples to cobalts for just comparing them and ignoring all the abilities that capital ships/support vessels supply would be:

70 cobalts vs 86 disciples, im not going to do it atm (might in several hours), but I wouldnt be surprised if the outcome is 2-4 ships on one side and it doesnt really matter which side, since its just a small difference.

He said "staggering" not stacking. And he's right, focus fire when the ship count gets so high means most of the skills are useless. A KOL rail gun shot is just like 0.5 seconds of focus fire later on. The repair rates of anything, repair bays included, don't mean much either when they drop in a second or two.

As to the topic, most of those tests were really one sided towards the cobalts, but the most important one was the cobalts vs. disciples and that wasn't weighted too much in either direction. Hes right though, there's no anti-medium for Advent yet, but when he has 70 cobalts you better start making heavy cruisers.

Neither Fighters or Bombers work against Light Frigates. Fighters are worse than Bombers at it. Despite their name "Light Frigate", they don't actually use Light armor.



Frogboy's words:


So after the new Illuminator Vessel 1.04 arrives, you'll get:
188% more damage from the front beam, against Cobalts.
15% more damage from each of the side beams, against Cobalts.
22% more shield points.
19% more hull points.

All for the same price. The only loss is in speed, down from 800 to 500.

Until then, you've got Cleansing Brilliance + Malice as an anti-Cobalt-swarm weapon.

chasington:

actually I was assuming he did think they stacked, since he made 4 of them and wasnt referring to the staggering comment. If he wanted a carrier fleet with decent support one carrier cap+cruisers would be superior to 4 carrier caps(unless all were level 8+, which I doubt).

his cobalts vs disciples was weighted towards cobalts, since cost wise the cobalts were 110% of the disciples.

Conclusion for this thread
Pointless discussion if you read the 1.04 preview, which was posted before this thread. illuminators will be doing ~288% (maybe was 286% forgot) damage upon a focus fired cobalt in the next patch and have 20% more survivability vs cobalts in the next patch as I covered in the 1.04 thread.

yep I was referring to this as the thing that can wipe out a 100 cobalts, tec has nothing like it, while vasari have a limited version in comparison to it.

On my 35 Illuminators vs 70 Cobalts, I moved the Illuminators in the middle of the Cobalt fleet to take advantage of the 3 beams. The Cobalts massacred the Illuminators and still had numerous ships left after the battle.

This is good news. For sure.

I test it out tonight, my assumption is that a capital ship will last about a minute against a massive fleet of Cobalts.

You will need to state specifically what in this topic is "misinformation". Cut and paste please or use quotes.

Thank you.