Good game, but in dire need of more single player options

from Sins Forums

I like this game for it’s gameplay, but am really disappointed that there isn't more single player.  I read online reviews that said that this was the case, but I didn't expect there wouldn't be any type of campaign to play.  As far as RTS games go, this would be like if a Warcraft or Command and Conquer game only allowed you to play a skirmish or do multiplayer.   But ok, this is a different game which is a merging on genres right?

But what about a basic storyline to structure this game around?!  Maybe a full blown immersion and progression of events isn't needed like in Homeworld, but how about a working storyline or sorts like in Both Masters of Orion (1 and 2)?  In each game you were initially presented with a challenge (Destroy the guardian of Orion or beat the other players), and at the end of each game played you at least got nice animations of winning/losing.  Sadly, this game starts you off with no goal in mind other than the assumption to destroy your opponent (who you somehow know exists without ever making contact).  Then after spending several hours of play you are only awarded with a static victory/defeat page followed by game stats. 

The opening sequence to this game goes on and on about the history of some galactic conflict.  The unknown narrator cryptically mentioned "they" referring to two different waring factions/aliens/who-knows-what.  Sounds half interesting, I can’t wait till the game elaborates further… but it NEVER DOES!!!  I guess I'll have to imagine who “they” are and what “they” really want.  Hell, I don’t even know for sure if “they” are really in the skirmish I’m allowed to play with either AI or another player.


So my personally rant review:

Gameplay = terrific and ground breaking
Most everything else = unacceptably inadequate or non-existent.

 

24,800 views 33 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
They, the Vasari, and they, the Advent, are both pretty self-explanatory :O
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
If you look in your manual, or even better, the lore section on the webpage - you will see that the TEC (once known as the Trade Order), has been at war with the Vasari for ten years prior to the start of the game.

You will also see that 1,000 years or so prior to the beginning of the game, the Trade Order exiled the entire population of a planet into deep space, due to largely a disagreement of ethics and morality - that and the fact that said culture did not embrace their grand view of capitalistic society. These people became the Advent. After a thousand years of doing who knows what, they have run out of resources, and have decided to reclaim their homeworld, and reap their vengeance upon the descendents of the Trade Order (the TEC).

As for the Vasari? They are some rather imperialistic, highly advanced aliens who are on the run from some unknown menace. They have been on the run for 10,000 years prior to this game. They are being pursued, or atleast think they are; so they just run around and suck systems dry in terms of resources, then pack up and move along. They conquer, enslave, or eradicate anyone that gets in the way.

The TEC are just stuck between a rock and a hard place now. They have bad luck on one front, and they're reaping what they sowed on the other front. Sucks to be them, but hey, ain't that always how it is with us earthlings?

Sooooooooooooooooooo.....................

The information is all there, at your fingertips, if you want a more in depth explanation of it all. Enjoy.

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
True enough Itharus, but iPhantom's point holds and has been made by MANY(so i won't reiterate) and is probably agreed upon by most as one of the game's only/few pitfalls, and a big one at that.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
ya, I love this game, but would have really loved a SP campain. Most every good RTS like game I have, I've played the SP at least twice.

Course, there's a WHOLE lot'a room for an expansion with this game, including a SP campain. But I'm sure the Devs never thought about that, and will include it in 1.5  ;)



 
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
To All,
I know Sins doesn't have a "real" campaign, but don't let that get you down. The "modders" out there are hard at work, and there are several campaign "storylines" out there already, plus more being in the works. If you like, you can check out the one I'm working on at this thread:
WWW Link

Also, if you do a little hunting in the mods threads, you'll find more.

My story line is that the Vasari on on the run from....themselves, or more an ancient, more advanced faction of them, who are like a hybrid Vasari / Advent Race, complete with custom textures and ships. Check it out. Let me know what you think. But SINS has potential. Just let us modders work our magic. You'll see.

And hopefully later the developers will release an "official" campaign and story line.

DANMAN
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
I'm not fussed about a campaign. I'd play it at least once if there was one, but I do not need it to enjoy the game.

But I do agree with the original posters point about the end game screen.
It does feel a little anti-climatic to finish an epic game & just get a "You win" type of screen.
Having said that I do not know what what it is that I would prefer in its place.
Maybe some kind of more personal deliver of the end game graphs in summary?
Something along the lines of "you have one the day, but this is what it cost you..." then maybe a more graphically based list of ships lost (like tombstones or similar) etc.
Something to give it a bit of personal depth, rather than a cold hard collection of line graphs. Make you aware of the cost your civilization paid for your victory.
Doesn't need to be as detailed as the graphs, as I have no wish for them to go, just more of a summary of the war.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
I think that Sins would be very well suited to a "world domination" kind of single-player pseudo-campaign, like is used in the Dawn of War Dark Crusade expansion, the Rise of Legends campaign (though that did have a story, it was less linear), and the C&C3 Kane's Wrath Global Conquest mode.

Basically, for all of these you have a bit map of something, be it a continent or a planet or a star system, and this forms the strategic map. Each player has a couple of "pieces" that basically represent their main forces or some abstracted kind of thing, and then basically you move those pieces around, fight matches in the game itself, and ultimately conquer territory and try to oust everyone else. It's fairly tough to explain, but basically think of a Risk board and whenever someone attacks or defends, you start playing a full normal game of, say, Sins.

Basically this would be a pretty easy way of giving a series of single-player games some kind of continuity and vague sense of purpose rather that just each being a stand-alone. Plus this way you don't have to end up with a sub-par traditional campaign if Sins doesn't support event scripting like I've heard.

Just an idea, but this thread got me thinking about it. I don't think Sins really needs it but as a mainly offline player, I'd love it.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Seriously,i rather have no campaign at all than a badly made campaign like those in some of the recent games.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
(perimeter)....

campaign was totaly.... lame.. didnt make sense :P


i agree with cheesenium
rather no campaign then a sucky 1 (takes time to make a good .... give it time... they know we want a campaign ;))
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
Which is exactly why I'd be quite happy with the open-ended conquest mode. It just gives a sense of lasting accomplishment :)
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
i would love a campaign as well

and a more accessible screen for the end statistics, some kind of summary like in SupCom
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
I didn't really think about it much before, but I guess I prefer no campaign in a way...
The good 4x games I have played and enjoyed in the past were kind of a sandbox experience. You have this one planet, and a whole universe to explore.. You just go and do what you want...

I do appreciate that some people would like a bit more of a story to play through, but I feel when I play 4x/rts games with campaigns that I am being pushed to follow someone elses idea of what I should be doing. The only campaign based games I liked were ones where whatever story was around were loosely defined, and you didn't suddenly get presented with "You failed to destroy the 4 siege engines in time... Restart / Quit".

As I've said in another thread, my yearning for 4x gaming stems from the old Ascendancy, where the start of the game was very similar to Sins. Make galaxy, start research (to even get a phase jump engine!), research ship design, start building colony ship... off you go!
No campaign, but who needed it!!! The universe was mine to explore!

To each their own though...
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
rather no campaign then a sucky 1 (takes time to make a good .... give it time... they know we want a campaign )
End of quote


Nailed it.

The devs know that at least some of us would like to see a campaign. I feel confident that we'll get a campaign and some end game animations in future iterations. Until then it's sandbox all the way.

Oh man, Ascendancy was such a great game :CONGRAT:
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
There is something you can play similiar to a campaign in sins:

Try to get all "Achivements" done (in order)!

At least I have something to do in Single Player this way :)
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
Whats wrong with a 'You are Victorious!' jpeg popping up at the end of a game? lololol
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Nailed it.

The devs know that at least some of us would like to see a campaign. I feel confident that we'll get a campaign and some end game animations in future iterations. Until then it's sandbox all the way.
End of quote


Expanding on this a bit - the devs themselves want a campaign, even before most people know there wouldn't be one :P

So all the "please make a campaign" threads are actually quite moot, since IC wants to do it regardless ;)
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
i personaly dont get too wraped up in a campaign, i dont want to play someone elses story i like to make my own. for me i feel cheated if a game doesnt have a sandbox mode. this game is spot on for players like me. i never finnished the stroy line of some of my faviorte games like the settlers or stronghold. its all about making my own content and playing the game the way i think it should be played. I play the single player game almost every day and i have a blast. when you talk about more options for single play i would say "make the sandbox bigger" not more narrow.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
I have confidence that Ironclad will introduce more elements into game for the single player. To me, as a single player, I understand that the developers were looking to provide replay value in a sandbox mode ala Civilization/MOO type fashion. Unfortunately, after playing several games the gameplay just plays out the same way almost everytime. It's just a little to repetitive in it's gameplay for a single player. I am waiting patiently for Ironclad to add a little more random/dynamic elements into the gameplay and this game will be right up there with MOO.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
I think that Sins would be very well suited to a "world domination" kind of single-player pseudo-campaign, like is used in the Dawn of War Dark Crusade expansion
End of quote


Agreed. Not so much a campaign as an open-ended strategic arena with set maps and customizable hero units. I think this might work very well here.

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
If we can't have an official campaign, at the very least I would enjoy the following:

-Alternate victory conditions
-Alternate starting conditions
-Triggers

And to have those wrapped into an editor would make making a campaign much more plausible for fans.

Ben
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
 :HOT: 
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
I approve of what you are saying.Of course I would like to customize your own ships within the game. :LOL: 
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
I agree about the victory screen. I've never played a RTS for so long each game (a good thing). But I remember getting my first victory, and waiting for the fanfare, or explosions, or music, or "anything", only to see the finger-painting Victory screen pop up in a split seond. It was very anti-climatic after such a long fight.




Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
I agree with the decision to release the game and concentrate on the skimish and multiplayer modes. It's important to get the basics right...the campaign will follow...especially since there is so much talk about it I wouldn't be surprised to see it as part of an expansion.

I'm like some of the others...I don't really care about the campaign...I make my own story by playing the game.

Tom
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah. The "you win!" jpeg is pretty lame. How about a brief animation with Advent strippers or something? :)