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Blair Fraser
Blair Fraser
Join Date 10/2006
+291

Multiplayer Crashes

April 9, 2008 3:46:20 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I apologize for the MP dumps. I've addressed this multiple times in other threads but they've been buried so it isn't because we are ignoring it or trying to hide it - its just impossible to comment on it everytime it reappears in a new thread. Tech support has also been in email contact with a variety of people (including some in this thread).

The MP bug is 1 of 2 major bugs we are aware of and its a sync bug. Statistically, it is very rare which is why it is so difficult for us to track down (we have yet to see it ourselves but we have something going out soon that will help us find it from those who do get it). Also, any multiplayer fixes are scheduled to go out in 1.1 not 1.04. They are in seperate code paths and completely seperate systems being worked on by completely seperate people. This isn't a matter of just throwing the fix into 1.04 and 1.04 development is not slowing down 1.1's development so don't feel we are wasting time on 1.04 (balance + misc) when the *real* bug is in 1.1 (multiplayer).

Now, to save you all a lot of headaches - the nature of the sync bug is that once you've had a game where it happens it is very unlikely you can recover from a MP save game. If you load the MP save game and continue to play you will crash again. You will then load a more recent save game and crash again. The crashes will come more and more frequently. If you see this behavior just start over as its very probably that its the sync bug and the crash is nothing to do with your machines, network, or drivers. If you don't see this behavior, its likely a driver problem or you are running out of memory or you are running a bad mod (at least based on the data we've collected through tech support).

As soon as 1.04 is out I am going to make a post looking for volunteers. I have a special 1.04 build that will track the synchronization info we need to track it down. Since we can't recreate it we need to have a few players who it happens to regularly to play 1.04 with this build and then send us their logs when it goes out of sync.

P.S Minidump is the generic term for a general crash - it could be anything and is not caused by any specific problem. We can decode the minidump to get useful information on the true nature of the crash.

technical
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Blair Fraser
Polynomial
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #1 April 9, 2008 7:10:37 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I'm sure there will be plently of volunteers for this, myself included.

This problem has virtually caused long term games unplayable.
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Blair Fraser
Multianna
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #2 April 9, 2008 7:32:02 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Since i haven't experienced this bug, how far into a game does people see this happening? My longest games have been around 4+ hours.
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Blair Fraser
FrznMD
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #3 April 9, 2008 10:24:28 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
For us (my friends and I who play on LAN),

It's usually a few hours.

It's kinda like the problem we had with SupCom (lucky for us it got fixed eventually)
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Blair Fraser
INTREPID-LI
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #4 April 10, 2008 1:39:52 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
We have the same problem with large maps at about 4 hours. My friend crashed once (we got some lag error warnings before it happened - network popup). We reloaded the saved game and the lag continued (slow downs .. starts and stops). Then I crashed. So here are two people with 2 different computers crashing. I don't think this is that uncommon.

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Blair Fraser
ThorXENO
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #5 April 10, 2008 2:07:01 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
DIDDO i think i had a game last bout 5 hours or basicly most of a night havent seen a bug like this will keep a watch out for it tho.
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Blair Fraser
Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
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Reply #6 April 10, 2008 10:20:16 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Btw, what Blair forgot to post here but did in another thread:

If you want to volunteer now, you can send an email to support@ironcladgames.com with the subject "Sync Bug Volunteer" to get put on the list

Please note that they really need people who can recreate this constantly - a crash once in a while isn't necessarily going to be related to a out of sync minidump that happens every single game like some people are experiencing
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Blair Fraser
CommanderAdama
Join Date 04/2007
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Reply #7 April 10, 2008 2:00:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
DIDDO i think i had a game last bout 5 hours or basicly most of a night havent seen a bug like this will keep a watch out for it tho.




*dito. Diddo is a singer i'm pretty sure.

I'll definitely volunteer for it, even though i hardly ever get minidumps, and i have played tons of multihour games that have been amazing, with no one dropping.
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Blair Fraser
[MAGOG]Kruelgor
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #8 April 10, 2008 5:12:33 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I would not be surprised if it's a Synchronization hack. This was a major common hack with John Madden football. When someone was losing a game and didn't want to have a loss on their record they would whip out the old Sync Hack.
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Blair Fraser
PhoenixHeart512
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #9 April 10, 2008 5:38:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
It happens to me, and the group of friends I play with - we have never been able to finish a multiplayer game because of this. It has happened as early as 15-30 minutes, and as late as 2 hours.. One time, I think we got up to 3 or for hours in before it happened, but it ALWAYS happens.

I'd be more than happy to run a build that will track that and do MP games.

(it rarely happens when I play with my friend over LAN, mostly just internet with other friends)

I'll send an e-mail to volunteer
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Blair Fraser
PoorManDSO
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #10 April 10, 2008 6:51:40 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Blair,
I would like to try to save you and IC some trouble right from the start by reminding any Nvidia users that they will want to upgrade their driver to 174.74!
(please read supported hardware specs./notes before installing)
It is available to XP(32,64) and VISTA(32,64) platforms.
Here is a WWW Link to ALL XP, VISTA drivers.

Good Luck to all with crash issue. I know how fustrating it can be.
PoorManDSO Out!!!
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Blair Fraser
Aexrael
Join Date 08/2006
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Reply #11 April 11, 2008 8:46:43 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Blair,I would like to try to save you and IC some trouble right from the start by reminding any Nvidia users that they will want to upgrade their driver to 174.74!(please read supported hardware specs./notes before installing)It is available to XP(32,64) and VISTA(32,64) platforms.Here is a WWW Link to ALL XP, VISTA drivers.Good Luck to all with crash issue. I know how fustrating it can be.PoorManDSO Out!!!


Unfortunately the 174.74 drivers are only available as WHQL non-beta drivers, to the 9th gen hardware. they've yet to be released for the 8th and 7th gen hardware. So it's not really recommendable to suggest anyone but the powerusers dabble with the 174 beta drivers.

You wouldn't want a flurry of angry users who moans about poor performance, crashes, or their pet running away due to something that may not have anything to do with Stardock/Iconclad, but rather to faulty drivers.

Granted the 174.74 beta drivers runs quite well on Vista x64 with a 7800GTX.
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Blair Fraser
Edix
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #12 April 11, 2008 9:10:39 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Interesting, I would like be apart of the special 1.04 build test people. My crash was occurring every time I played MP. See this thread to see what steps I took to "fix" my issue.

I would like to test it very much. Let me know. I'm pretty sure I can reliably reproduce my issue in MP.
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Blair Fraser
Blair Fraser
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #13 April 11, 2008 6:51:57 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hello all,

As promised there is now a special 1.04 build that will help us track down the de-sync bug which can be downloaded here: www.ironcladgames.com/sins/SinsSyncCheck1.04.zip.

If you are interested in helping here are the instructions to help us track it down:

1. Make a back up of your sins executable.

2. Unzip the new sins executable into your sins installation folder.

3. Play sins multiplayer against people who are using the same test version.

Warning #1: You will not be able to play with someone who isn't using this version.

Warning #2: You can't start from an older save game. It has to be from a fresh 1.04 test build game (not even a vanilla 1.04 save game). Once you've started playing from a test build, starting from save games is ok.

Warning #3: Do not play with a mod. Infact I would even temporarily move everything out of the mod folder just in case.

4. When a de-sync is detected, red text will appear on the screen.

5. Every player in the game then needs to open their CheckSum folder which is likely in:

C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire

or

C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\

6. In this folder you will find a SyncError file dated from the time of the sync bug. Every player involved in this game should send their SyncError file to one person. Typically we send it to the host.

7. The person who has all the SyncError files should then zip them all up and send them to support@ironcladgames.com with the subject "Sync Bug". It's important they are all collected as a unit so we know which files belong to which game.

With everyone providing data, we should have it tracked down in no time. Thanks in advance to everyone who participates

EDIT: New Info: Please make sure you delete you user.setting file before starting the de-sync testing process. This only needs to be done the first time.

-Blair

 
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Blair Fraser
INTREPID-LI
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #14 April 11, 2008 6:58:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Super! This is the best game support I've ever seen.
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Blair Fraser
shaft187
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #15 April 11, 2008 8:09:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Blair, you are Johnny on the spot! I will disseminate this immediately thank you very much! We'll have some data for you shortly.

Thanks,

John
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Blair Fraser
BlackWindx
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #16 April 12, 2008 3:00:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
i only had it once and that was when i had a mod in the mod folder not enabled online and never had it when i moved it out of the folder. hope that helps.
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Blair Fraser
MMojo
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #17 April 12, 2008 3:32:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
My 2 cents - I'm really stoked to see that there is some visible effort going into this. Thanks.
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Blair Fraser
INTREPID-LI
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #18 April 12, 2008 4:35:58 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Always happens to us when we play large maps.
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Blair Fraser
Wotse
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #19 April 12, 2008 6:41:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
The game is practicly unplayable in multiplayer mode because of the crashes.
It sucks pretty bad, can't finish half my games because of this 'minidump'

Because of this error, I cannot really recommend this game to anyone....
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Blair Fraser
Xelloss101
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #20 April 12, 2008 7:53:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I just started getting it today, we got it like 3 times starting 3 different games. We have been able to play a few really long games before, so Idk whats up..
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Blair Fraser
latvian
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #21 April 13, 2008 7:24:19 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
yey new patch...and my first minidump ever..... i sign up for this just to never get it again
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Blair Fraser
amirabiri
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #22 April 13, 2008 7:58:06 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I must say this issue is extremely irritating. At the moment it very hard to finish even 1-on-1's. I don't get the dumps too often, but between myself and the opponents, I think only 50% are finished without a disconnection / minidump.

Please do something about this soon.
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Blair Fraser
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #23 April 13, 2008 11:19:21 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Please do something about this soon.


Trust me, they are hard at work trying to fix this problem. The problem is, they can't reproduce it in house so they can only work with what they've been given in the way of minidumps -- which is how they know theres a desync based error going on. A testing version is supposed to come out soon for those that are still getting the minidumps.
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Blair Fraser
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #24 April 13, 2008 12:20:36 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Please do something about this soon.


For anyone who is having this issue, it's very important that you try the test build linked in Blair's reply #13 above and send in the sync logs as he asked. We know there's an issue, but we need you guys' help to get it pinned down. So please help us help you, rather than just posting about how bad it is.
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Blair Fraser
drbowtie
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #25 April 13, 2008 12:44:09 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
for me it seems like I get the mini-dump when in an intense game and building alot of frigate ships...

Some others I talked to also seemed to get dumped while building ships...? if that helps any?
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