that actually sounds like a decent idea. also makes the placement und deployment of starbases a bit more strategic if you can't just spam them everywhere.

something like 5 points for a starbase and 1 point for a mine field (so 10 individual mines). if you start out with 10 - 20 pts and can reach something like 100 or 150 .. sounds about right.

but then, should there also be a resource drain? I wouldn't think so, the one for fleet supply is enough. and if the cost is about that of the capship research, then the cost alone should be enough to deter total spamming (combined with the cost of actually building mines).

one other thing I wanted to bring up: I would like to see a reduction of mine dmg and an according reduction of cost. somehow, for the tec, 1000 plus resources seems a tad much for just one field. that is becaus one field won't really do you any good, you need probably at least 3 - 4 for any kind of decent coverage. and that gets quite expensive. on the upside though, once you have it, it's a pretty good protection.

but what I'd prefer is that it's easier to mine a hole area with them, but the indivdual effects of mines are not that drastic. that way they just weaken the fleet passing through and there still have to some other defenses to finish them off. I know, it's not exactly what mines work like for real, but I think gameplay wise it's better to have something to protects large areas reasonably well than something that protects small areas exceptionally well.

I mean, there could be dmg upgrades for mine too, it's not like that is forbidden or anything.

here's another (adding on) idea: shrink the maximum range from planet for mines as a defensive structure. (explain it as needing to be closer to keep it in orbit due to its lesser mass) so that you can place a turret say 1500 from an asteroid or whatever (outer build limit) but you can only place a mine field 900 from an asteroid.

I disagree agree for two reasons:

1) The vast majority of players really like mines; they just don't like the way they're currently implemented. That's what beta is for. When the game is released the mines will be well balanced to be fun, easy, and useful without being OP.

2) Something human players can build is very different from the layout and behavior of the map. Turning mines on and off would totally skew the balance of the game. Imagine if we said: "Some people don't like LRMs so we'll make those toggleable." Of course this would be absurd. The solution to mine balancing is not to make it optional, but to fix it.

I agree; making minefields more about just making the whole grav well dangerous to be in is probably a better way to go than having little pockets that make you go: "nonononocomeback ... dangit!" when the fleet AI wanders you into it. Which is what we have now.

A thought on Advent mines: obviously there's a lot of work to be done on them, but I'd like to go on record saying homing mines are pretty nifty. In concept, a cluster of mines that can travel across a well toward someone is scary without being OP. Players learn to give homing mines a wide berth until they're ready to charge in with scouts. Homing mines really cover the most area of any of the minefields because of their drift. We still have to kill some annoying micro problems, but Advent mines are much further along in the balancing process than TEC and Vasari.

I stand convinced, BaggerX. And ... hehe ... that was me talking about lines earlier. I may be throwing out ideas a bit recklessly. We'll call it a brainstorm. Generally making the well more dangerous is preferable to what we have now, but what is MOST preferable, based on what everyone has more or less agreed on up to now in this thread, is:

FCN_ATHENA'S MINE FIXES:

1) Easy 2-click placement of mine walls.

2) Smart AI that avoids mines unless you disable that behavior to ram the field.

3) A mine cap that prevents reckless pollution while still making serious minefields possible, probably a capital-ship-crew-esque Defense tree to upgrade the cap dynamically.

What, exactly, do you base that on? Mines are the most loathed and complained about thing on this forum. They hurt performance and game flow at the same time. An option to make them go away entirely (ala pirates) is a good thing.

Tridus, as far as I know there's no scientific evidence one way or another about how popular mines are. Thanks for calling me on that. Let's not say they're popular or hated. Polarizing for sure. : )

Toggling pirates makes a lot of sense because it's about turning off a single game mechanic. Toggling mines doesn't because mines are part of the wholistic defensive mechanic. The rest of the units and structures (and even factions) in the game have to be balanced around mines. Being able to turn off mines means the devs have to create a whole new game balance that doesn't account for them, and players have to learn two different balances. This is not what we want.

Good to hear Blair! Keep up the good work. You're a personal and professional inspiration to me. : )