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Hack78
Hack78
Join Date 04/2008
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[Fixed for Certain Cases]An open letter to Stardock/Ironclad about the number of people being unable to connect to ICO

How can we help them help themselves

January 24, 2009 8:12:36 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Dear Brad/Blair/Craig

I am seeing a large number of threads being created or hijacked by people who cannot connect to ICO. The claims I am seeing range from ICO being offline to Sins being junk and still only worthy of Beta status to a total boycott of ICO and to Hamachi instead.

Now I am sure most of the issues are not yours, they are on the clients end. However look at the following links

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/337545/

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/337527/

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/337495/

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/337362/get;2033522

 

This suggests people are not able to resolve their networking issues etc... What I would like to propse to you is this:

1) Add a status page to this website that actually states the status of the ICO server. This way people can see if it is up or down without posting to the forums asking every 5 minutes

2) Upgrade the multiplayer networking information in the FAQ. The link to The Monks guide has not worked for a few months now at least, and there is no information about ICO requiring port 7000 to be opened. Not knowing this took me 3 days to work out why I could not connect to ICO when I upgraded from 1.05 (which worked fine for me, and I regularly hosted) to 1.11. When I turned off my firewall, I was able to connect so I knew it was my end. But I understand networking a little better then the average users, so they might not realise that looking up the Sins process ID in task manager and then doing a netstat -a -o etc... would let me see the ports that Sins was trying to use to connect to ICO when I upgraded.... So put simply - I was able to fix it, others it seems cannot

3) Rather then just saying "Disconnected from Icronclad Online" in the error, which is not very informative, is it possible to put some information in - e.g. "Disconnected from Ironclad Online. Unable to connect to ICO on Port XXX - check if it is open in your firewall".

4) The best option would be to have a diagnose connection issue option in Sins - similar to how MSN and IE have them - they run through some tests and tell you what issue(s) they are having.

Please do this as the forums being filled with unneeded posts about ICO makes the worthwhile ones harder to find, and you end up with people bad mouthing Sins because they don't understand how firewalls and P2P networking works.

Regards

Hack

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Hack78
Kingofgreens
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #1 January 24, 2009 8:53:57 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

As far as I can tell, nothing has changed within my system & it seems highly unlikely that so many people also suddenly have then same remote problem. Something has apparently changed on the server side & I certainly hope it gets worked out asap.

 

I don't see why I need to be an IT pro to play a game online. This is really getting old in a very fast way.

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Hack78
tristangoodes
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Reply #2 January 24, 2009 9:24:56 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

To me, it just seemed it was the same person complaining in each thread, hardly good evidence...  I'm sure they're working on it

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Hack78
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Reply #3 January 24, 2009 9:38:54 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yes it is the same person in the thread, but look back at the forums and there are heaps of these examples. I just picked some that were recent.

No you do not need to be an IT pro, but you ARE responsible for your home network or however you connect. What I am asking for is something to help people diagnose this and to inform them if there is an ICO issue. Everyone is quick to say ICO is offline when the issue is their end....

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Hack78
Kingofgreens
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Reply #4 January 24, 2009 10:00:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I know some of my posts sound a bit like complaining. I'm just getting a little frustrated.

I also would like to find the root of this problem so that we can all put this right. I simply don't know much about these things just as most people who buy a game &  just want to play it without having to make technical adjustments to their network.

 

 

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Hack78
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Reply #5 January 24, 2009 10:41:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Just to point out a few things

You need to be on the latest patch (currently 1.12) to use ICO - update via Impulse if required.

The ports in your user.setting file need to be opened in all firewalls between you and ICO (i.e. windows AND modem firewalls).

Some people have issues with two routers between them and their gateway - refer to The Monks guide for info on this

Email ironclad support is normally the best way to get this resolved

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Hack78
Kingofgreens
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Reply #6 January 25, 2009 1:12:39 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting NYOMYTHUS,
reply 6
face it -- this game blows

I wholeheartedly disagree.

This game is amazing.

I just wish I could play online again.

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Hack78
-Ue_Carbon
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #7 January 25, 2009 2:26:41 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting NYOMYTHUS,
reply 6
face it -- this game blows

Sigh, yet again another random ass, Oppss I mean person, who crawls out of the wood work just to waste my life posting junk.

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Hack78
WHIPperSNAPper2008
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Reply #8 January 25, 2009 3:03:25 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

 

I second Hack's suggestions for an ICO status page and more detailed error messages.

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Hack78
Hack78
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Reply #9 January 25, 2009 3:07:39 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

If it is too hard to build into Sins, maybe even a stand alone exe that checks the ports etc..., does a dummy log into ICO using a test account and reports back to the user. That way at least the user knows the issue is either port related or something else - e.g. incorrect/invalid cd key etc...

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Hack78
the_Monk
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #10 January 25, 2009 3:37:41 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

 

2) Upgrade the multiplayer networking information in the FAQ. The link to The Monks guide has not worked for a few months now at least, and there is no information about ICO requiring port 7000 to be opened. Not knowing this took me 3 days to work out why I could not connect to ICO when I upgraded from 1.05 (which worked fine for me, and I regularly hosted) to 1.11. When I turned off my firewall, I was able to connect so I knew it was my end. But I understand networking a little better then the average users, so they might not realise that looking up the Sins process ID in task manager and then doing a netstat -a -o etc... would let me see the ports that Sins was trying to use to connect to ICO when I upgraded.... So put simply - I was able to fix it, others it seems cannot

 

Hack78,

 

Sorry I haven't updated my guide with the newly added port (7000).

I figured since ALLOY (the new SINS netcode) was supposed to have made my guide/help obsolete here I didn't need to update it.

 

I'll be glad to return to the community and update my guide etc. if there is enough need for me to do so.  Also, although the link to my guide in the FAQ points to my old host (and therefore doesn't work any longer) the link from the OP in my sticky (https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/174313) does still in fact work fine!

There used to be another working link from the "Technical and Hosting FAQ" which has since been removed.

 

Again,  If there is still enough need for my networking help within this community I will update my guide.  Since this gaming community isn't the only community I help/write guides for and ALLOY was going to make me extinct here (hehe ) I haven't been checking back nearly as often as I used to.


Hit me up on xfire (the1monk) Hack if you want to chat sometime....

 

the Monk

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Hack78
Hack78
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Reply #11 January 25, 2009 6:44:24 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yay - The Monk is back!!!

There would seem to be a need. If you could look into the port 7000 thing - that was the issue I experienced, but it may not be what everyone else is having...

Ultimately though, I still think an electronic Monk built into Sins or as a standalone would be a better idea!!!! lol

I'd write something, but I have no idea what protocols etc... to use, and I figure firing off non-Sins port connections to Sins ports might not be the best idea....

BTW-  here's someone who might have an issue for you to sink your teeth into!!

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/337545/get;2034894

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Hack78
Annatar11
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Reply #12 January 25, 2009 9:55:31 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Holy crap, Monk is back

Well, I can agree somewhat on having the status page. However, it's only recently that they've been working on a new ICO version and hardware upgrades and before ~1.1 I can't recall ICO being down for months at a time. If they forsee ICO being wobbly for some length of time, I can see having a status page - but it's rather redundant when it becomes always-on again.

 

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Hack78
Hack78
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Reply #13 January 25, 2009 11:30:12 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, I can agree somewhat on having the status page. However, it's only recently that they've been working on a new ICO version and hardware upgrades and before ~1.1 I can't recall ICO being down for months at a time. If they forsee ICO being wobbly for some length of time, I can see having a status page - but it's rather redundant when it becomes always-on again.

True, except it means people can't blame ICO for their connection issues if they can see that ICO is up and running. Blaming ICO seems to be first choice, rather then looking at their network setup it seems....

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Hack78
Annatar11
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Reply #14 January 26, 2009 8:08:32 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

This is true.

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Hack78
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Reply #15 January 26, 2009 10:07:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Here is a link to how I managed to fix my issues with 1.1X after upgrading from 1.05

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/337545/get;2035180

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Hack78
Tom Porter
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Reply #16 January 27, 2009 6:44:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Players are too easily disconnected from ICO requiring the game to be restarted from the last auto-save. I posting this here as well as the improvements list in hopes that some easy changes might be implemented.

 Save Frequency – give control over the frequency the game is auto-saved. The default is 15 minutes; I’d like to be able to set the timing and number of auto-saves to keep before recycling. I don't mind restarting so much...I do mind having to replay the same 15 minutes over again. 

Player Disconnect – I’d like to have control on whether a player is disconnected. In Company of Heroes the game will display a voting dialog. At a minimum when I’m hosting a game I know the players and would like some control over whether they are disconnected. Also using CoH as an example the same players that get together in CoH also get together in Sins...The only disconnect issues we ever see are with Sins. 

Hosting the Game – I can and do host games at ICO using alloy with little problem. When running the test it says that my IP is hidden. I’ve tried opening TCP ports 6000-7000 with no success. My guess is that it is trying to ping/access my LAN IP rather than the router IP. I would prefer to host the game on one of my systems rather than use alloy. One of the best examples of this is how Supreme Commander implemented their game hosting. A player joining enters my router IP and password and they’re connected. As the host, I have to port forward the appropriate ports on the router and steup the game and we’re up and running…very simple solution. Is there any plans to implement such a cross-internet local hosting? I have friends that are quite separated geographically and would really like to continue to play Sins after ICO decides to no longer support their servers.

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Hack78
Annatar11
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Reply #17 January 27, 2009 7:55:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Save Frequency – give control over the frequency the game is auto-saved. The default is 15 minutes; I’d like to be able to set the timing and number of auto-saves to keep before recycling. I don't mind restarting so much...I do mind having to replay the same 15 minutes over again.

You can do this. The setting is hidden in your user.setting file but you can change it without affecting any MP games. So you can set it to 5, and you'll have no problem playing with people that have it at the default.

I have friends that are quite separated geographically and would really like to continue to play Sins after ICO decides to no longer support their servers.

You can do direct-IP games now also, just click Multiplayer rather than ICO on the main menu.

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Hack78
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Reply #18 January 27, 2009 10:23:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hosting the Game – I can and do host games at ICO using alloy with little problem. When running the test it says that my IP is hidden. I’ve tried opening TCP ports 6000-7000 with no success. My guess is that it is trying to ping/access my LAN IP rather than the router IP. I would prefer to host the game on one of my systems rather than use alloy. One of the best examples of this is how Supreme Commander implemented their game hosting. A player joining enters my router IP and password and they’re connected. As the host, I have to port forward the appropriate ports on the router and steup the game and we’re up and running…very simple solution. Is there any plans to implement such a cross-internet local hosting? I have friends that are quite separated geographically and would really like to continue to play Sins after ICO decides to no longer support their servers.

That basically IS how hosting works. Open port 6000 (or whatever is in your user.setting file), 7000 for ICO and open and port forward 6112 from your router to your PC's internal IP address. How do you think we hosted before alloy came out??? All the host actually then does is synchronise the simulations on all the connected machines...

If you look, the address for ICO is ico.stardock.com - so Stardock is who you probably need to get to support the servers!!!

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Hack78
Tom Porter
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Reply #19 January 28, 2009 1:55:19 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Annatar11 thanks for the info on the user.setting file...I'll give it a try. I host most of our games through ICO and do my best to save more frequently to minimize the replay time caused by the relatively frequent disconnects. So we all quit the game and reload from the latest save.

 Hack78 that's essentially what I did...ports 6000-7000 were forwarded and the router ip address was used. Vista's firewall was opened to Sins and when hosting the game my freinds could not see it. I'll try again and make sure that I didn't miss something. Glad to hear there's suppose to be a way to host games across the net without requiring a third party to host a server.

 

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Hack78
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Reply #20 January 28, 2009 2:21:34 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hack, I was told you are trying to organize a group of players so we can lobby for MP improvements. How do I join this organization?

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Hack78
Kingofgreens
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Reply #21 January 28, 2009 4:26:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Update

 

 

I have done nothing to change my net config in the last 3 days but for some reason today I can finally log into ICO after nearly 2 weeks which IMO proves my theory that the problem was on the server end.

I'm glad my problem seems to be resolved at least for the time being.

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Hack78
Blair Fraser
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Reply #22 January 28, 2009 4:39:51 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Our support emails suggest that by far the most common reason people can't join ICO is because they aren't using the most up to date version of Sins. However, we recently discovered a bug on ICO that would prevent certain players to being able to login after they had previously quit out of ICO leaving their account in a bad state. We fixed this bug along with a couple crashes and put up a new server last night. Hopefully this helps

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Hack78
Annatar11
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Reply #23 January 28, 2009 5:31:34 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Our support emails suggest that by far the most common reason people can't join ICO is because they aren't using the most up to date version of Sins.

I answer a lot of these on the forums, too. When ICO was using port 6000 people were properly getting the out-of-date error message. Now with the ICO port switch to 7000 in 1.1, the pre-1.1 games still try to connect on 6000 and instead of getting an out-of-date error they get a disconnected error, which is more confusing.

Can anything be done about it?

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Hack78
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Reply #24 January 28, 2009 9:32:04 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hack, I was told you are trying to organize a group of players so we can lobby for MP improvements. How do I join this organization?

Sort of - I'm campaigning for greater transparency for the networking issues so

1) User's can't blame ICO for their stuff ups (i.e. ICO is offline when they actually have a networking issue to resolve on their end). They would know the ICO status from the status web page

2) The user's can resolve their issues with better error messages/diagnostics - e.g. unable to resolve port XXX etc...

I wasn't trying to make it a crusade per se (far be it for me to lynch Brad/Blair/Craig - the same would end up happening to me from the other Sins players ) - just post here your support if you like my ideas.

So Blair - any chance of 1.13 having some better error messages/connection diagnostics and an ICO status web page being setup???

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Hack78
Astax
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Reply #25 January 28, 2009 9:44:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well we should make an organization to lobby for greater MP fixes.  Our tendency to take things lying down is causing us to be ignored

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