The Repair Cloud downright sucks... until you figure out it repairs strikecraft

In the Distant Star mod we made Cap Carriers better by bumping up the amount of starting SC to 4/5, maxed out to 8/9, and ALSO by giving Cap Carriers 'Elite' SC. You know only the best pilots get to fly on a Cap Carrier. These Elites have I think 25% more damage, armor and HP. Helps balance them out and give them an edge over light carriers.

Yes, carrier caps suck.  But carrier caps sucking is just an extension of all caps sucking.

To whoever mentioned repair cloud - I'm a vasari player.  I actually don't think that repair cloud is that good.  The problem with it is that you really can't make efficient use of it.  For instance, many times one of your ships is getting focus fired.  Using repair cloud in this instance means you are only healing one ship with an ability that can heal many ships at once - a waste.  Now, if by some chance many ships are being damaged at once (which also happens), how the heck are you supposed to watch all your ships, know when the optimium damage to them all has occurred, and then hit repair cloud?  Finally, it just requires too much micro to use.  I mean, observing all the damage levels of the ships with a finger over "repair cloud" mean you are essentially doing nothing else (focus firing, maneuvering, etc).  Putting the ability on autocast does not help the situation, because the cap will simply spam it mindlessly, putting it to no effective use.

Light carriers don't need a nerf to their range.  Their range is the whole point.

Yes, I know.  But that doesn't help the situation.  My points still stand.

You know, I can understand people finding the Sova sub-par, and I can see not finding repair cloud worthwhile.  However, calling the Halcyon worthless is another matter entirely.  First and foremost, it's your only anti-strike craft cap as the Advent.  Given how powerful strike craft are in the current version of the game, this automatically makes it a must-have in the mid-late game.  Beyond that, energy amplification aura is a big boon to any army.

As far as Sova and Skirantra go, they're one trick ponies.  You buy them for Embargo and Repair Cloud.  If you don't want those abilities, don't complain that they're not useful capital ships, because they are those abilities.  If you want direct damage, get a Marza/Kol or Devastator/Desolator.

The AI doesn't counter capital ships very well, plus you get lots of experience because the AI gets units killed carelessly, so you typically have much higher levels in singleplayer than multiplayer.  That said, the Halcyon is perfectly respectable in multiplayer. The weakness of capital ships really comes out more in MP than SP, where players will use well prepared comboes to finish them off quickly, and it's harder to get your own caps up to higher levels.  They're not bad, it's just much harder to use them well and much easier to get them killed.

They are far from unkillable. Just about everything in the mod has higher damage than Vanillia SINS so it still very balanced vs flak. And besides you cant spam a billion of them, Since they are just limited to Cap Carriers. Even if you build just Cap Carriers in the mod which is max Caps is 26 and say your TEC. With every Carrier maxed lvled you would only have 208 squads of SC. Compared to how many you could have via light carriers, I say it safe to say they are very balanced and give the Cap Carrier a reason to be somewhat feared.

The one 'itch' I have with giving carrier caps extra strike craft at level 1 is the issue with rushing.  If flak frigates got their appropriate buff, then this would probably be fine, but I'm a little worried because there just isn't a counter to strike craft right off the bat.  Sova is a particularly nasty rusher if it had a strong strike craft complement, since it can cripple your econ with embargo, and prolong its rush just by kiting.

Also, Sova is not a piece of junk, not by a longshot.  As I've said in other threads, Embargo is one of the game's most powerful abilities.  It doesn't help you win a battle, but used frequently and against the right target, it gives you a substantial economic edge that lets you win the war.

Fighters are better than bombers against all frigates except for flak frigates.  Since LRF's and carriers (which produce fighters, which counter bombers...) are the bulk of most armies these days, this leaves bombers with little purpose.  Unless your enemy is pumping heavy cruisers and support cruisers with minimal fighter support, bombers are relegated to the late-game when their damage upgrades allow them to be deployed (and then quickly recalled before fighters can do them in...) to destroy critical targets in a single sudden attack run.

And it has abilities.... And it quickly gets more SC as it levels up. A lvl 3-4 cap carrier has the same SC as 2 TEC/Vassari caps. Not bad if it was free initally.

ok i am the biggest fan of strike craft.  I usually have 10-12 Advent Drone hosts alone alone with 1 Halcyon in the begining (by the end of the game i usually have 2-3).  the Halcyon is the first capital ship i build.  hands down.  and the two guys i play sins with both build Carrier capitol ships with in the first 10 min of the game.  We each play a diffrent race usually .  Im Advent, One of the is TEC and the other is Vasari.  In my experience with these Capital Ships, i can honestly say they have saved my butt more than i care to count.  so to say carrier capital ships are useless is an extream understatement as was mentioned above.

I'll agree that cap carriers suck ( at the moment ), especially the Sova. With Embargo, the Sova is a one trick pony. If it works, you stand a good chance of winning. If it doesn't, you have useless cap. The DPS potential for the Sova is awful. Even with the missile batteries ( which are not mobile ), it pales in comparison to a Kol or Marza. The Dunov can at least NEGATE a huge damage potential by restoring shields. The Akkan has colonize, and armistice, which is a nice  'get out of jail free' card for your fleet.

More squads would be a big help. If I didn't have to max level a Sova to get 7 squads, it would at the very least be an alternative to the Kol/Marza/Akkan first cap. Maybe limit the Sova to fighters only, to stop bomber spam, and add in some flak turrets. Elite SC might be a nice addition as well. 4 or 5 squads to start, and 10 at level ten would certainly make me look twice at it. 10 elite fighter squads would be a huge help in clearing the hoards of lesser SC we seem to face now. Hell with flak as useless as it is now, I'd by two or three Sova's instead.

Maybe, as a side note, instead of light carriers starting with two squads, they start with one, and have to tech up to two squads ? Call it Advanced Fleet Logistics or some such. You have to tech up every other ship out there, why not LC's ?

I think people here are nitpicking at the idea and then pretending the idea sucks.

To Marc Paris, Star Destroyer's are not Carriers they are more like Kol's and Kol's can carry 1-2 SC which is fine. Sova is more like a Battlestar, where it carries multiple SC wings.We all know how a Battlestar has a lot of SC, plus unrivalled Flak capabilities ripping apart any Cylons getting in the Flak shield. (so no its not weak against SC)

So your analogy fails. Completely. Really and why are we putting such unflexible lines when we're dealing with Sci-fi?

To The Federation, I already mentioned the Halcyon might be an exception due to its good abilities but why don't be go try that with the Sova and the Vasari Carrier? This is an logicall fallacy, you think: Oh, I build Halcyon's (while playing only Advent) and do well with them so Dorian position must be wrong.Nevermind the state of the two other carrier caps.

You making them doesn't mean they still aren't as effective as they should be. That is also a logical fallacy, just because something "works" doesn't mean it should be something else.

Most people here seem to argee, Capital Carriers should be better while at the same time not being useless. Fine, they are not useless, but they still should be better. Esp. the Sova, and the Vasari Carrier. I hope the developer's see this.

Capital Carrier's should start out with 4 Strike Craft, maxing out at 9/10 and get a general buff to their shields and hp by 15% along with all capital ships in general. As someone already noted, capital carriers suck, but its an extension of all capital ships sucking right now. I agree with this, in my other trend to give capital ships a slight buff to their hp/shields.

This is not unreasonable. The firepower of a single carrier cap vs. 6 Light Carriers you could make instead is ridiculous. If you are against this, then you are just promoting the continued crappyness of capital ships vs. spam.

To any that opposes my proposition, speak out and do your worst, for I shall do mine. Un guarde.