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Sqirelmaster
Sqirelmaster
Join Date 08/2008
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Refinery help?

March 11, 2009 4:44:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hey everyone,

 

i've been playing this game for several months now, and I've never really seen any use for the refinery. It seems like a good idea, but everytime i try to use it, it only nets me a very small amount of extra resources (.3 or .4 every tick or so). I'm pretty sure im just using them wrong. soooo, what is the proper way to use a refinery?

 

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Sqirelmaster
sawakaki
Join Date 01/2009
+7
Reply #1 March 11, 2009 5:15:03 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

I only play TEC, so I can only answer for that race.  Anyway.  A TEC refinery sends ships to extractor in its own system and all systems with developed asteroids one jump away.  Asteroids at colonizable locations can only support 3 refineries, any more and there is now added gain.  Place them in a grav-well with multiple asteroids that's adjacent to other resource rich planets.  For example, a Terran planet that has a Volcanic and Ice planet on either side of it.

I also find the refineries are best for late-mid to late game when you start needing larger fleets and therefore lots of fleet credits.  In the beggining you're better off to build lots of trade ports and simply purchase the metal and crystal you need.

Anyway, this is what I do.  Hope it helps.

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Sqirelmaster
Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
+527
Reply #2 March 11, 2009 5:27:39 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I only play TEC, so I can only answer for that race. Anyway. A TEC refinery sends ships to extractor in its own system and all systems with developed asteroids one jump away. Asteroids at colonizable locations can only support 3 refineries, any more and there is now added gain. Place them in a grav-well with multiple asteroids that's adjacent to other resource rich planets. For example, a Terran planet that has a Volcanic and Ice planet on either side of it.

This is both good advice and also true for the Vasari refinery.

The Advent's is different. They don't have a separate structure, but a researched ability to convert their trade ports to boost resource extraction at their grav well only. The bonuses stack from multiple "refineries", though.

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Sqirelmaster
Itharus
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #3 March 11, 2009 5:54:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Also, don't be afraid to spam them around! Yes, each extractor can only be hit by three refineries, but there's no reason not to make sure that each extractor you have can get this coverage. When you have solid refinery coverage, the little .4 ticks REALLY add up! Especially late game when you have horrid upkeep values.

(For TEC and Vasari Refineries)

-Itharus

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Sqirelmaster
Sole Soul
Join Date 12/2007
+124
Reply #4 March 11, 2009 6:15:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Annatar11,
reply 2
This is both good advice and also true for the Vasari refinery.

The Advent's is different. They don't have a separate structure, but a researched ability to convert their trade ports to boost resource extraction at their grav well only. The bonuses stack from multiple "refineries", though.

But they (Advent's "refineries") are still (always) useless.

In talking with Kitkun I came to the conclusion (as far as I know Kitkun made no such conclusion) that the extraction rate should be 3 times what it is to be worth more than having them in trade port operation mode and buying resources from the black market (almost always)-although admittedly this makes them that much more useful (such that 2x the current value might be enough) on higher allegiance planets.

This also changes slightly with the starbase allegiance upgrades in Entrenchment, but I haven't re-run the numbers since then.  My guess offhand would be 2x is a good value for them to be almost always barely worth it, and that 1.5x would be where high allegiance planets break even.

The credits from running them in trade port operation mode aren't affected by allegiance, either, which helps that side of the equation.

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Sqirelmaster
Kitkun
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #5 March 11, 2009 6:31:17 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

From the aforementioned conversation:

Quoting Sole Soul,

It's actually not more efficient than buying metal or crystal.  If you only have the 8% extraction tech researched, you can't achieve an allegiance high enough for it to be worthwhile.  Exceptions to this involve a starbase with both allegiance upgrades, in culture, with allure, where the minimum number of extractors is equal to approximately 4.  This can be done via 4 extractors, 3 extractors with +50% extraction rate for that type, or 4 extractors with either 30% or 50%, but the point still stands-it's ridiculous.

At 25% extraction rate increase and with four extractors, you need a minimum of 50% allegiance for it to be worthwhile.  This is both before accounting for any bonuses the planet may have, and before accounting for starbases, so in a very long game it may seem worthwhile, but then one has to consider the fact that we have for the sake of argument ignored the extra income provided based on length of a trade route-we're assuming a trade route length of zero.

Now in a nominal best case scenario (without accounting for planetary bonuses), we can see that at a planet that has 4 extractors and is at 75% allegiance (in culture + two culture upgrades on starbase + allure), we get more for our money if our longest trade route is 7 (actually 6 2/3) length or longer.  If we somehow manage to get a planet that has a +50% extraction rate while having 4 extractors then we discover that we need a trade route length of 10 to make the same amount.  Divide by 1.3 for fast and you wind up with a length of 5 in the first case and a length of 7.7 or 8 in the second case.

The problem here is that you need 7 harmony labs to get to the 25% extraction increase.  The other problem is how much it costs to get this all set up (including the starbases in the above example).  The other problem of course is that the extraction rates are too low-if they were doubled it would be worthwhile.  As it stands, you're simply better off buying from the black market.

That pretty well sums up the whole thing.

 

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Sqirelmaster
Tridus
Join Date 03/2008
+110
Reply #6 March 11, 2009 7:02:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Here's a handy little map.

 

A -- B -- C -- E

      |

      D

 

Those are all planets you control, and phase lanes. Extractors in each of those have a refinery quota of 3, meaning they can only serve 3 refineries at once. In addition, a refinery has a range of 1 jump.

 

So if you build a refinery at A, it will hit A and B. One at C hits B, C, and E. One at D hits B and D.

 

One at B hits A, B, C, and D. In this case you want to build 3 refineries at B, and 0 at A, C, and D. You'll cap the extractors at all four planets and come out ahead in income. E is left out, but if it was connected to another planet (F), you could build refineries there and get both that way. I wouldn't build at E on this map, because C is already capped and you will only get more from E, which isn't worth the refinery cost.

 

Hope that helps.

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Sqirelmaster
Sqirelmaster
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #7 March 11, 2009 7:06:33 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

thanks everyone! this helps a great amount. all my questions have been answered =D

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Sqirelmaster
Moonchild333
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #8 March 17, 2009 9:42:17 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

wow.... I was so dumb to spam them all over... Thx for that Little map.... I'll sleep less stupid  tonight... iwch in my case is a giant step

 

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