over playing hours and testing misslebarrage i change my mind about it a litte. Against KI its just not fun at all, because if jo only build marzas u can kill every fleet. Up du 4 KIs testet. Most time the KI dont stops it

So its overpowered because KI dont stop it. On Multiplayer Vasari has a huge problem with misslebarage because the only have one cap ship that can stop this ability as far as i know. And this ship is one of the weakest Caps in the game if you need DPS.

I like to play with  friend against gangedup KIs, but if he gets barrage on the first marza the game is near to a win for us, because the next 3 marzas get such a fast level up that afer 15 mins the next 3 marzas has lvl6.

just show me another capship that has such a high damageoutput.

I mostly dont like nerfing ships, But we need much more balance here.

We have 2 options: nerf the missle barrage or get more power to the other caps.

I produced a nice rundown on how some of the existing abilities should look to be compared to MB.
Take a glance here if you didn't yet ;].

I think it IS a DECENT idea of how to solve the issue.

Maybe MB is not overpowered, but it SEVERELY stands out of the line of ALL other abilities.
It is the ONLY ability that ALONE, with NO SUPPORT, puts ALL the pressure on the ENEMY.
If he doesn't act fast, he lost.

The damage it deals is practically irrelevant. What is important is the underlined part.
It is severely imbalanced in how little you have to do and how much effort your enemy has to put in.

Either all factions should have some sort of "Show your reflexes NOW or DIE" ability (which they DON'T, Missile Barrage and Override protocol are the two only such abilities) or neither should have it.

No need to nerf anything, just play smarter

I only play SP, roughly 50%/25%/25% Advent/TEC/Vas.  When I play TEC I don't build any Marza's because once it/they hit level 6 the game becomes a joke difficulty wise - and I always set all AIs to unfair.

That's nowhere near the case for any other cap ship of any race, or even combinations thereof.  That's overpowered.  Even at half the current damage it would be a close call with being OP.  While I really don't like nerfs in general, MB is so out of whack with the other lvl 6 abilities some kind of adjustment just makes sense IMO.

Hey, dolynick, was it you that had mentioned putting MB into a column in a mod to test it?

I would love to try that out if I can find someone to make an advent battleball to fire it into.  I think the replay could be a motivational youtube hit.

Its apperent some people have not read much of the thread.

There has been good suggestions by dolynick on how to balance the ability page 3 i beleive.

Also, yes there are ways to counter MB when you have other cap ships and support cruisers at your disposal. But if you had been paying attention to the OP you would have seen this happened early game before more caps and support cruisers came online. Even if you flee the grav well the mazra might catch up to you and destroy a good number of ships before you jump.

If you had read my post (again page 3) I pointed out even if your fleet survives its taken massive damage and the enemy fleet will have gained the upper hand in an engagement. See when you add MB ability with a halfway decent fleet your fleet if can destroy the enemy if the MB didnt do it out right.

I would also contend in late game with huge battles its still hard to stop a mazra from sneaking and dealing a death blow even if you have a counter at the ready. 

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I mean, what the hell? LEVEL ONE revelation battleship can stop this attack with detonate antimatter. Detonate antimatter can A: remove some antimatter, B: causes damage, And C: STOPS Abilities that relay on it. LIKLE MISSILE BARRAGE!                                          

your argument doesn't make any sense Vespucci.

you've just restated the issue using synonymous language. "losing 250 fleet supply from building chaff/filler to eat MB" is the exact same thing as "MB is brutal and kills a huge fleet of frigates every time its activated."

i mean, if a target capped MB still deals brutal damage and destroys a huge fleet, how can you even say that thats too severe of a nerf?

to be honest i have no idea what you're even thinking of when you refer to "chaff" ships. a ship is a ship. if you had to pay resources and fleet supply to get ships, for any purpose, you're still paying for those ships. if your opponents MB made you pay for those ships but he himself didn't have to pay for "chaff" because his opponent doesn't have a MB then the imbalance still remains. 

the objective my target cap proposal is to remove the scales to infinity element of Missile Barrage while keeping its ability to destroy a large number of frigates in a short period of time. if, according to you, those frigates are merely "chaff" then so be it. 

i mean, when i read your criticism the message is totally incoherent. you say "don't nerf MB because the nerf won't be good enough." you've negated your own stance! so if a target cap nerf is too lenient and leaves MB with too much power still (forcing the "chaff" building behavior, according to you) then what kind of change to MB would actually balance it? 

I actually agree with everyone!

A nerf isnt called for (in the sense that nerf means: to make harmless)

But it is a bit to powerful, someone who is (for an example) trying to control two battles at once, each equally important, and doesnt notice a lvl 6+ marza in one battle feild, switches to the other battle for a minute, and comes back to a gravity well full of debris...

In this case its not a problem of someone being careless or stupid, it's that its just a little bit to much power a little to fast...

When I finaly download Forge Tools i'm going to experiment with mods on this... try to make it slightly less powerful, slightly reduce cooldown time, etc, etc...whatever it takes to make it "balanced" not "symmetrical"

I tell you what.  I will build and post a tiny mod that changes the MB to work in that manner.  I will also build and post other change versions that people would like to see tried as well.  I can't do this right at the moment but possibly later tonight I can have something ready and posted.

So let's be clear here.  Mods to be tried currently are:

1)  Reduce MB circular range to 6000m radius? (from 10,000m)

2)  Leave circular radius at 10,000m but cap targets at 24?

3)  A completely uncapped target column with a 1000m radius exactly like Cleansing Brilliance.

4)  A target capped (32? or 48? or even 64?) column area with a 3000m? or 4000m? radius.

5)  Cut the number of salvos (total damage) by 50%? and decrease cooldown by 25%?

6)  Cut the damage of each salvo by 50% and increase the number of salvos by 100% (effectively double the duration)?

The question marked statements mean that I'm open to suggestions for the values.  They are just the values that I figured would be logical starting points.

Once again, if there are other suggestions for ways to try as "fixes", please put them out there and if it's possible then I can try to get a tiny tester mod out that implements it.  I doubt we'll get a concensus on which is the best fix but who knows.  At the very least it may put an end to the argument that MB cannot be "nerfed" and still be an effective and highly desireable ability.

The catch is that they have to be for Entrenchment.  These types of mods are trivial for Entrenchment but have to be much larger for vanilla due to not having Manifest.  I have no problem with doing this as not a single one of those mods will take more than a minute or two to implement.

-dolynick

* Target limit 24
this is the most important thing, the limiter that prevents MB from going over the top against huge fleets.

 * Salvos slightly slower, every 2 seconds, for 30 seconds.
This would create 15 salvos at max, 2250 x 24 optimum damage  = 54.000 damage under ideal circumstances

* Reduce MB circular range to 6000 or 8000, needs to be tested
To allow ships to retreat out of range, the range needs to be decreased.

* More visible effect of MB
People mentioned mods that make MB much more visible, which is definitely an advantage when you want to interrupt it or have to react to retreat out of range of the barrage.

Missile Barrage would still be very powerful and feared, but it could no longer butcher AI fleets all alone, regardless of their size, and would allow people to react better in multiplayer to an incoming barrage, which would still be powerful. People would still have to move their ships or suffer the dire consequences.

Edit: Actually... I think it needs to be nerfed even more. Oh well.