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EadTaes
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
+25

LF and LRF damage % chart changes.

Just what I belive would make the balance betwwen LFs and LRFs more balanced.

June 13, 2009 1:56:21 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

These are the default values from the game files.

        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:CapitalShip 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:VeryLight 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Light 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Medium 1.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Heavy 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:VeryHeavy 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Module 0.50       
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:CapitalShip 0.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:VeryLight 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Light 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Medium 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Heavy 1.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:VeryHeavy 0.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Module 0.5

 

These are the changes I propose.

        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:CapitalShip 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:VeryLight 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Light 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Medium 1.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Heavy 0.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:VeryHeavy 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Module 0.50       
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:CapitalShip 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:VeryLight 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Light 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Medium 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Heavy 1.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:VeryHeavy 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Module 1.0

 

Reasons are simple to make it so that LFs are just as much as a good choise for a core unit as LRF. Also it to make LF better since unlike LRFs they need to get into firering rage of the enemy in order to attake.

Increase dmg VS capitalship is to match the LRFs.
Increase dmg VS Light is to reduce the LRFs supremancy over LFs. LRFs will still easily dispose of LFs witht heir damage bonus and higers damage base then that LFs. So LF vs LRF battle will still means LRFs wins but only it wont be as easy as it was.
Increase dmg VS VeryHeavy to match the LRFs on ths feild. Only Heavy Cruisers use that armor type.
Inxrease dmg VS Module is simple unlike LRFs, LFs will ne to come under fire from defence plateforms were LRFs will fire from out fo range. This would also more defences mroe relevent should LF be more commound.

 

That's basicaly it.

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EadTaes
Shadowhal
Join Date 04/2007
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Reply #1 June 13, 2009 5:35:25 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I dunno about the module change. they aren't designed for anti-structure roles and if you use them against defenses you must either be a bit desparate or stupid or it doesn't matter anyway since you have so many.

the change from very light ... well. lrfs do get a pretty tough bonus, so it probably wouldn't hurt that much, as they'd still cream them pretty easily.

instead of upping dmg against very heavy, how about lowering lrf dmg also to 50%? I mean the hc can already be countered by bombers and by a host of special abilities, mostly by the 2nd caster unit, so it is only reasonable to have them be pretty effective against both lf and lrf. they're fairly high tech anyway.

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EadTaes
mbar8
Join Date 01/2009
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Reply #2 June 13, 2009 8:47:43 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

What is the file name and where is it?

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EadTaes
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #3 June 13, 2009 10:10:42 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

It's in Gameinfo and the file is Gameplay.CONSTANTS

 

These are the stats for the heavy cruiser weapons. Againt heir the only Ship to use this weapon And as you will see their already counter just about everything.

        DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:CapitalShip 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:VeryLight 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Light 1.5
        DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Medium 1.25
        DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Heavy 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:VeryHeavy 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Module 0.75

 

The damage increase in fields were LRFs and LFs aren't in direct competiton it to make them equal as a toll for the job how ever the LRFs still remain slightly superior due to their higer DPS and longer attake range.

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EadTaes
mbar8
Join Date 01/2009
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Reply #4 June 13, 2009 1:03:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ah! Thanks so much. +1 for you.

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EadTaes
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #5 June 15, 2009 10:12:42 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Bump

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EadTaes
MindsEye
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #6 June 15, 2009 7:00:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I would agree with this except instead of rasing damage to lrf decrease damage lrf does to lf.Dont make lf kill lrf better but make them survive longer to kill some stuff.

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EadTaes
Xer07
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #7 June 15, 2009 7:28:09 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

When I first came here I was like

Then I realised it wasn't official, then I was like .

Anyway, the entire point of LRF's is to own LF's early game.  I would agree with EadTaes in that any LF's that do survive and get within range of LRF's should at least get a fighting chance, don't you?

 

Koda0 (^) 

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EadTaes
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #8 June 15, 2009 7:58:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Indeed if you lowered the dmg LRFs do to LFs you would achive a similer result. How ever LRFs would remain a better choise to counter them selves since they would do 100% damage to other LRFs while LFs will do only 75%. This will only help favor more LRFs as a solution to LRFs. However boostign the LFs dmg vs light armor opens a new possible improvized counter to to LRFs that aren't more LRFs. It's not the best since youll be takign mroe damage but it narrows the gap a bit so that with support cruisers and the rigth backup you can do it.

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EadTaes
TheRezonator
Join Date 12/2008
+27
Reply #9 June 15, 2009 7:59:57 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

what if LRF's had a minimum range and cant fire within that range, giving LF's a chance if they make it that close... its like, artillery or a tank is devastating at long to medium ranges but at short ranges (more for artillery than tanks) is very weak or even defenseless

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EadTaes
Xer07
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #10 June 15, 2009 8:06:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hmmm.... I dunno... I always compared LRF's to snipers or Abrams (the tank) more than Artillery...

Koda0 (^)

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EadTaes
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #11 June 15, 2009 8:08:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

That's a very interesting idea. How ever i wouldn't make I make unable to target/fire but would rather give it a 50% damage penalty. Thats quite interesting.

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EadTaes
TheRezonator
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #12 June 15, 2009 8:20:43 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

How ever i wouldn't make I make unable to target/fire but would rather give it a 50% damage penalty.

we could say due to the short range, 50% of missiles dont reach the range at where the safeties disengage so they just ram into the shields harmlessly (like 'Hunt for the Red October', where Sean Connery rams the torpedo with his sub before it reaches arming range and the torpedo just gets knocked by the hull)

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EadTaes
mbar8
Join Date 01/2009
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Reply #13 June 16, 2009 11:30:36 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I like the ideas listed. I especially like LF being 1.0 damage against LRF. LRF already has a BIG 1.5 buff against LF so why make LF 0.75 against LRF? I think changing that one value would move LF into a much better strategic option again.

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N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #14 June 16, 2009 1:03:01 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm not sure about some of those changes. LRFs should still hit LFs badly in my opinion.
However, LRFs should have their effectiveness highly reduced against other types of ships.

The problem with LRFs rite now is that they work good against everything, as long as they're protected from fighters. Structures, LFs, Caps, support Cruisers, carriers; you name it - they blow it. Only HCs take a moment to destroy, but it is still way easier to amass LRFs in an amount to wipe a HC fleet than the other way around.

1. LRF should be made a specific counter to structures and LFs, not a massive damage dealer against everything as they are now.
2. LFs should receive some boost to their usefulness (reduced supply cost a bit, slightly buffed damage against capitals and HCs) so they really are really needed in late game and so that they would need a counter.

So basically... yeah. 
I only oppose that LFs should get a buff against LRFs and that LFs should deal as much as LRFs do against heavy units now. LRFs should get nerfed instead, otherwise all caps and HC will get blown away as soon as they appear in the gravwell.

ψ

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mbar8
Join Date 01/2009
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Reply #15 June 16, 2009 2:51:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

LRFs should get nerfed instead, otherwise all caps and HC will get blown away as soon as they appear in the gravwell.

The damage table has LRF at 75% against most of the big units like HCs and capitals so would you have them lower their overall DPS instead of adjusting the damage tables?

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EadTaes
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #16 June 16, 2009 2:52:47 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting N3rull,
reply 14
I'm not sure about some of those changes. LRFs should still hit LFs badly in my opinion.
However, LRFs should have their effectiveness highly reduced against other types of ships.

The problem with LRFs rite now is that they work good against everything, as long as they're protected from fighters. Structures, LFs, Caps, support Cruisers, carriers; you name it - they blow it. Only HCs take a moment to destroy, but it is still way easier to amass LRFs in an amount to wipe a HC fleet than the other way around.

1. LRF should be made a specific counter to structures and LFs, not a massive damage dealer against everything as they are now.
2. LFs should receive some boost to their usefulness (reduced supply cost a bit, slightly buffed damage against capitals and HCs) so they really are really needed in late game and so that they would need a counter.

So basically... yeah. 
I only oppose that LFs should get a buff against LRFs and that LFs should deal as much as LRFs do against heavy units now. LRFs should get nerfed instead, otherwise all caps and HC will get blown away as soon as they appear in the gravwell.

ψ

That is also somehting I concidered. But I personaly prefered the buff. But a nerf to LRFs in the same order/maner i buffed the LFs would also indeed work. I would have ever maintain the LFs superioraty againt structures then have it equal to LRFs. Since LRF can wipe defencive structure from outside their firering range while LFs have to expose them selves to the fire from the defences.

Basicaly it would look like this.

        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:CapitalShip 0.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:VeryLight 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Light 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Medium 1.25
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Heavy 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:VeryHeavy 0.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Module 0.50       
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:CapitalShip 0.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:VeryLight 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Light 0.75
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Medium 1.0
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Heavy 1.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:VeryHeavy 0.5
        DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Module 1.0

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EadTaes
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #17 June 16, 2009 2:57:32 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting mbaron888,
reply 15

LRFs should get nerfed instead, otherwise all caps and HC will get blown away as soon as they appear in the gravwell.
The damage table has LRF at 75% against most of the big units like HCs and capitals so would you have them lower their overall DPS instead of adjusting the damage tables?

Indeed. Adjustignt he damage tables is a better way to go at it since it only affects the performance vs certain types instead of againts all types.

But lums will most certainly need a base damage modification.

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EadTaes
TheRezonator
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #18 June 16, 2009 9:56:23 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

i dont see why (im just using generic names i dont mean these actual ships) LFs cant be effective vs LRFs and LRFs be effective vs LFs

why does paper HAVE to cover rock but rock cant rip paper?

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MindsEye
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #19 June 16, 2009 9:59:48 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The problem I see with making lf effective counter to lrf is that lrf are suppose to counter lf so it doesnt make sense to me to make them able to kill lrf better but to let them survive better against them to kill their counters.lf are ver cheap and shouldnt be effective at killing its counter or why build lrf.

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EadTaes
TheRezonator
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #20 June 16, 2009 11:02:12 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

LF are short range fighters, whereas LRF are long range

LF should have good short range attack, while LRF should have better long range attack, but be weak at short ranges.

to be honest, i feel the LRF takes more of a destroyer role, but in a funny form. i see a destroyer being strong against all ships and structures with multiple weapons types and banks being able to fire in a 360 degree arc (like the Kol). (im describing it this detailed cause id really really like it to be implemented )

however, the LRF is very much long range 'fire support' as it were, but somehow manages to take on a short range combat role as well. i think this needs to be addressed. perhaps drop its armor by heaps... or make it suceptible to LFs at short range...

on the other hand, make it viable for LRF's to attack LRF's with some effeciency, considering how easy it is to spam LRF and how difficult and costly it is to spam Carriers...

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EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #21 June 16, 2009 11:08:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

WOWHOHO hold it. Not talking about making LFs counter LRFs here. Just talking about narrowing the gap a bit so LFs dont get creamed as hard as they do currently by LRFs. LRFs will still be bale to cream and should always cream LFs only maybe not as much as they do currently. Their is a big difference in that.

Yeah destroyers with 360 weapons and HP somewere bettween a LF and HC would rock.

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EadTaes
TheRezonator
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #22 June 16, 2009 11:09:55 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

LRFs here. Just talking about narrowing the gap a bit so LFs dont get creamed as hard as they do currently by LRFs. LRFs will still be bale to cream and should always cream LFs only maybe not as much as they do currently.

i can live with that. i mean, a sufficiently large number of LFs should still drill LRFs without losing half their number...

Yeah destroyers with 360 weapons and HP somewere bettween a LF and HC would rock.

damn straight

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MindsEye
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #23 June 19, 2009 4:13:53 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

WOWHOHO hold it. Not talking about making LFs counter LRFs here. Just talking about narrowing the gap a bit so LFs dont get creamed as hard as they do currently by LRFs. LRFs will still be bale to cream and should always cream LFs only maybe not as much as they do currently. Their is a big difference in that.

Yeah destroyers with 360 weapons and HP somewere bettween a LF and HC would rock.

I see I would prefer them to last longer instead of kill lrf better.I think you can do more things if they last longer then just kill faster.IMO lf die way to fast and its annoying.

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