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Buttons6
Buttons6
Join Date 05/2008
+2

How does culture work?

August 16, 2009 2:19:18 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I was playing a game and there were 4 planets in a line   A ----- B ------ C ------- D.

A and D were connected to others, but B and C were isolated in the middle of this line.

 

I controled B and enemy had C.  I spammed culture (3 on a asteriod), and began to influence the enemy on plannet C.  I had a culture rate of 16.5.

The enemy then builds ONE culture station at plannet C, which give it a culture rate of 10.  This is enough to completely counter my culture, and plannet C goes back to 100% allegance (was enemy homeworld).

I was Vasari, enemy was Tec.  WE both had starbases at our plannets, and there were no capital ships anywhere near for quite a while, so capital ships are not a part of the equation here.

Then I upgraded my culture fully (researched every possible tech in the Vas culture tree), and my culture rate remained the same at 16.5.

 

All this leaves me to wonder how the culture machanics work?  Or was what I experienced one of the many bugs that seems to be ignored?

 

PS - I have a replay if anyone cares to see it (actually a pretty good 4v4).  While your watchin it you can also watch me try in futility to get my ships to fly between two phase gates, they continuously attempted take the long trip through 10 plannets rather than use the phase gates to fly straight there.  Then suddenly, after about 5 mins of issuing orders and playing silly games, I could use the phase gates.

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Buttons6
Darvin3
Join Date 12/2008
+167
Reply #1 August 16, 2009 2:58:57 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I don't know the exact mechanics of culture, but it gets weaker (considerably weaker) with each jump.  Normally you need about half as many culture centers as the "attacking" player to remain safe, so I would expect your three to "beat" his one on defense.  What could have happened in this case is the enemy could have had a second culture center on planet D (or another planet further away) which would also help.  Technology upgrades to culture rate might have also played a factor.

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Buttons6
D00my88
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #2 August 16, 2009 7:48:47 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

you said there is starbases at ennemy planet ?

 

maybe he just used foreign government on it

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Darvin3
Join Date 12/2008
+167
Reply #3 August 16, 2009 3:14:57 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

maybe he just used foreign government on it

This won't stop the loyalty from dropping, it will just stop the player from losing control of the planet.

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Buttons6
Exterm123
Join Date 03/2008
+1
Reply #4 August 16, 2009 5:09:14 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Can't you still lose the planet to culture?  Just not bombardment?  Or was that debate settled already and I missed the memo?

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Buttons6
InfiniteVoid
Join Date 09/2008
+22
Reply #5 August 16, 2009 5:21:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Culture stations divide their culture evenly among the outgoing phase lanes from the gravity well they are in, so planets with fewer phase lanes will have culture spread faster from them. Unupgraded, these stations broadcast culture at 10.0 per second, which with upgrades can go up to 12 for TEC/Vasari and 13 for Advent.

Therefore, since planet B is spreading culture at 16.5 culture per second through the two phase lanes connected to it, your Media Hubs are each producing 11 culture per second for a total culture generation of 33, divided by 2 for the spread rate along one phase lane (which is how the game arrives at 16.5)

Simply put, your culture spread rate isn't yet maxed: the final Vasari culture spread rate upgrade is the Tier 6 tech Cunning Sympathizers. I'm guessing you maxed Shock and Awe instead (Tier 5, increases culture repel rate for capital ships).

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Buttons6
Raging Amish
Join Date 03/2008
+79
Reply #6 August 19, 2009 8:32:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Can't say what it was with the culture without seein the game, but to answer your last bit:

Phase Gates do that. It's a bug that's been in the game for a while. Phase gates won't pick up on their existence for a while. Why? Don't know, but that's the way it is.

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Buttons6
SageWon
Join Date 07/2008
+45
Reply #7 September 11, 2009 12:46:31 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The enemy then builds ONE culture station at plannet C, which give it a culture rate of 10. This is enough to completely counter my culture, and plannet C goes back to 100% allegance (was enemy homeworld).

Since there are only 2 phase lanes out of C, then this would indicate a culture rate of 5 versus your 16.5.  (5 is derived from 10 spread rate from 1 media center, divided into 2 phase lanes, 5=10/2).

I don't know the exact mechanics of culture, but it gets weaker (considerably weaker) with each jump. Normally you need about half as many culture centers as the "attacking" player to remain safe, so I would expect your three to "beat" his one on defense. What could have happened in this case is the enemy could have had a second culture center on planet D (or another planet further away) which would also help. Technology upgrades to culture rate might have also played a factor.

I don't understand the exact mechanics either!  But needing "about half as many culture centers as the "attacking" player to remain safe", sounds about right.  So I don't understand why 5 was beating 16.5?  Unless like you said, he had a second culture center elsewhere. 

I'd like to understand the mechanics of culture repel better.  (The replay might help).

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Buttons6
Cpt_Siddy
Join Date 02/2008
+11
Reply #8 September 12, 2009 12:10:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

you need like 5 cultur centers to overcome 1 enemy.

 

you need like 31c/s to overcome enemy planets 15c/s

 

cause each time the cultur is going to nexst planet, it will go there with half strenght.

 

30c/s is infact 15c/s on nexst planet and so on.

 

Also culture centers got stacking penalties if i remeber corretly...not sure...

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anteachtaire
Join Date 06/2009
+2
Reply #9 September 15, 2009 5:38:34 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

culture sucks, don't bother. The cost/benefit ratio makes it for more defensive purposes than anything else. If it wasn't MEANT to be this way, how could less defend against more, as it were?

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Buttons6
ArchNemesis
Join Date 02/2008
+1
Reply #10 September 16, 2009 4:11:05 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting anteachtaire,
reply 9
culture sucks, don't bother. The cost/benefit ratio makes it for more defensive purposes than anything else. If it wasn't MEANT to be this way, how could less defend against more, as it were?

 

idk who this is that wrote this but he is a moron so dont listen to this...i find culture a vital part of the game especially when it comes to advent, their sbs can spread an insane amount of culture incredibally fast with 3 upgrades too it, not to mention culutre increases your credit cry and met income of all ur planets that u have culture on...and ontop of it all if u get a good strong culture up and you have an insane amount of planets and u suddenly start getting attacked from the back and u dont have the flet to fight on 2 fronts yet, u dont have to worry about them colonizing them if ur culture is strong enough so all u need to do is send a colonizer to the planet and retake it with out worries that the enemy already set up a new point of attack on it.

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Buttons6
Fuzzy Logic
Join Date 05/2002
+486
Reply #11 September 16, 2009 7:58:23 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

culture sucks, don't bother. The cost/benefit ratio makes it for more defensive purposes than anything else. If it wasn't MEANT to be this way, how could less defend against more, as it were?

Incredible n00b comment.

Culture is vital. Not only does it increase your income by way of increasing allegiance, it also stops your enemy colonizing. I always try to load my front line planets with broadcast centres, it makes you difficult to invade successfully as well as overthrowing enemy planets.

I always upgrade too. That makes a huge difference to culture spread.

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Buttons6
anteachtaire
Join Date 06/2009
+2
Reply #12 September 16, 2009 8:59:13 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

omg, that would be defined as DEFENSIVE USE. Culture is fine for defense, just don't bet that it'll work on offense against a competent player. I find it funny that you quote me and right there it says "for defensive purposes," people just don't read any more.

 

Thought you might app. some numbers from a "Idiot n00b"

Cost of SB (frigate)

2000crd

350m

250crys

Cost of SB

1000crd

100m

125crys

Cost for SB. development (3 ranks of E. nodes)

5400crd

825m

450crys

Cost for research (temple of com.)

600crd

50m

100crys

Cost for research (E. nodes)

400crd

50m

85crys

Cost of 2 temples of harmony                          cost of 3 temples of Hostility

1500crd                                                         2250crd

120m                                                            180m

160crys                                                         240crys

TOTAL COST FOR 1 SB w/ 3 lvls of E. nodes

<<13150crd>>

<<1675m>>           *Just to give you an idea, this is

<<1410crys>>          equiv to about 22(minimum) to 30(maxish) Illums.

                              INCLUDING REQUISITE R&D.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Cost of 1 temple of Com.                    Cost for 3

900crd                                              (2700)

100m                                               (300)

150crys                                             (450)

-------------------------------------------------------------

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Buttons6
InfiniteVoid
Join Date 09/2008
+22
Reply #13 September 16, 2009 9:33:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

More often than not, culture is used as a means for economic and fleet boosts. Culture that makes it to enemy planets and is able to overcome competing cultures will provide your ships bonuses at their planets as well. Although it happens infrequently, culture has the potential to be used as support on the offense.

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Buttons6
anteachtaire
Join Date 06/2009
+2
Reply #14 September 16, 2009 9:53:49 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

fo' shizzle, no arguments from me there!      

 

btw... if you issued the tactical capacity upgrade and tried to build the phase gate before the upgrade completed (you know how its just stuck at like 1% construciton?) then you'll run into that issue of idiocracy. For some reason it effs up the phase gate buff behavior for a while. Just make sure that the upgrade finished before you issue the build order and you shouldn't have any problems. Dunno if that helps you.

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Buttons6
ArchNemesis
Join Date 02/2008
+1
Reply #15 September 17, 2009 1:01:16 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

like viod said culture can be used for offense too but more then that it is used for massive eco boosts which inturn can create a fleet alot faster, now correct me if im wrong but can a fleet be used as offensive.......not to mention when ppl see culture coming toward thier planets they usually stop building fleet to get a culture up of thier own which in turn is also offensive cause u stopped him from building fleet and researching mil....as i said before..............moron fits this guy well

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Buttons6
anteachtaire
Join Date 06/2009
+2
Reply #16 September 17, 2009 2:16:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah.... did I say to not use it for eco? No.

 

 

 

 

and that STILL counts as defense you silly peasant. Join the military. Or just take some military science courses; it ain't all that difficile. I think the problem lies in how you and I differ in the definitions of offense and defense. Defense is quite cleary different from offense, even if the two serve a common purpose. I give up, no point kicking a dead horse.

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Buttons6
ArchNemesis
Join Date 02/2008
+1
Reply #17 September 17, 2009 5:59:21 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting anteachtaire,
reply 9
culture sucks, don't bother.

ok first off i am in the military so u made me laugh with that last post...thanks....secondly the reason im callin u a moron is becuase of ur first 4 words.......lastly what is ur ingame name so i can enjoy beating u every chance i get and smurfing u...this game has been getting boring so this might prove entertaining for a few days.

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Buttons6
anteachtaire
Join Date 06/2009
+2
Reply #18 September 17, 2009 6:08:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

not saying anything, gave up on arguing, remember? You must have no life, so sorry about that.

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Buttons6
Astax
Join Date 04/2003
+24
Reply #19 September 18, 2009 10:45:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Culture has its uses. With starbases it has become even more important.  Yes it can be expensive, but it none the less remains pretty good tool when used properly.

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