Something like that would be an incredibly useful feature for Rebellion...

Upper Midwest Region = Wisconsin, Upper Peninsula of Michigan, Eastern Minnisota etc...)

And if there is going to be multiplayer (which there should be), PLEASE PLEASE make some effort to advertise it or make it more accessible to newbies.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/412287

Feels like IC is just in a consulting role these days @_@.

Gormoth, so you're implying that the online multiplayer crowd is composed of unemployed losers (who don't have to prove themselves on the job each day)?  Why not just come right out and say that explicitly instead of making such cute innuendos?

In your view, is it possible that there are mature people (some of whom might even have college educations or advanced or professional degrees even) out there (who might even have children) who work stressful full-time jobs and who have to prove themselves on the job everyday who also enjoy competitive activities such as raquetball or online multiplayer in their free time?  Or, are competitive strategy games something that only unemployed unmarried childless losers and high school kiddies can enjoy?

Adult responsibilities and activities would certainly reduce the amount of time that people can spend playing the game, but even a great many people who work 40 hours/week still have some free time on weeknights and weekends to get a couple 2.5 hour games in each week if computer gaming is what they enjoy doing during their free time.

The real issue isn't whether or not someone has adult responsibilities, but their mentality and temperament.  Online multiplayer PvP just simply isn't for everyone.  Some people don't have a competitive streak and/or don't enjoy playing strategy games against legitimate opponents.  Some people prefer to play against retarded computer opponents and feel good about themselves because they can outsmart feckless algorithms after having played against the algorithms for years.

There's nothing wrong with playing against the AI if that's what you enjoy, but you're wrong to snidely imply that the people who prefer non-retarded real opponents in their strategy games are immature unemployed losers who don't have adult responsibilities.  Your dropping of the "maturity bomb" accusation almost suggests that you feel some sort of a need to compensate for your insecurities by accusing those who engage in an intimidating activity (to you) of being immature.

Haree, what message do you think is failing to get through?  Did I misinterpret what he said in some sort of a way when I responded to his post?  Please do the charitable thing and explain it in simple language for the ignorant masses to whom the message won't get through.

Some people prefer single-player. I understand that. But the fact remains that those who play single-player exclusively are missing out on a whole lot of the actual "strategic" element of the game due to the fact that their AI opponents are, to be blunt, not very good. Even with the advantages granted at Cruel and Vicious, the AI keeps falling into the same game-breaking mistakes, like charging headfirst into starbases, like not retreating their caps even when they start to take a lot of damage, like always spamming LF in the beginning, like having little to no sense of structure placement... there are too many to list. Fighting AI simply isn't a decent challenge.

Multiplayer adds a whole new dimension to the game, and those who refuse to play it are missing out. Now, if you aren't very good, and if you're all right with fighting an enemy against whom you will always win, that's fine, although disappointing... but multiplayer is where your opponents can actually provide you with a challenge.

If building a significant fleet early in the game is a good strategy, why label it as "childish"?

Sucks. All online games have a number of problem players, unfortunately. That said, they are easily ignored.

In my experiences online, even when I was very new, I never had any problems with those sorts of things. "Siddy"s are much much more uncommon on ICO than this thread would have you believe, and the new player stats / smurf aspect is usually only a problem if you join one of Howthe's games.

I very very rarely see trash talk, although it does happen here and there. Perhaps it's just because of the times or types of games I play, but from my experience, griefers are rarely a significant issue.

Yeah, I kinda knew this will lead to the multiplayer guys flying off the handle, so it really was my fault. Sorry for the obvious flame bait, but I just didn't like Wrath89's comment on blaming Ironclad/Stardock for something that clearly is the behavior of their fanbase.

I think -Ue_Carbon explained my point of view perfectly. Thanks

Honestly, without meaning to offend any further, Dirty, your...shall we say..energetic? behavior is exactly why you seem to like multiplayer: Instead of merely shrugging about my comment or ignoring my snidey little remark, you seem to take it as some sort of a personal challenge you have to win in. Look, I don't care that I win against a 'retarded' computer player, or the fact that you can most certainly beat me online without even looking at your screen. I play for fun. And I bet the fanbase play for fun as well. I just have enough on my plate than to attempt to hone my skill to perfection, and it has nothing to do with Ironclad's or Stardock's multiplayer design or lack thereof.

This is the exact reason why I no longer feel the need to defend against each and every retort you throw at me and check back every minute to see your reply. A few years ago, sure, I would play that game with you, escalating this further and further until it would get personal, but really, I just don't feel the need anymore. Perhaps that's what I meant when I 'dropped my maturity bomb', as you call it.

The exclusivity of ICO due to the players is part of the problem... but that problem is caused by low player counts (and of course, the attitudes of some players)... and Sins has always had surprisingly low player counts, from what I'm aware. Even before "smurf" terminology there were very low numbers of people online.

I'm pretty sure this problem wouldn't exist if playing online had been made a little more accessible to newbies, if it was actually advertised (and if, for instance, the Mesh problems had been fixed when the game came out, among other bugs). Everyone was a newbie when the game came out, after all... but due to circumstances (related to advertising and game design IMO) multiplayer never really took off.

But now that the game is old, the low player counts online are reinforced by the very high learning curve... those playing online have mainly been playing for years. It just isn't fun for a newbie to play and lose 30 games in a row before you start to understand what the heck's going on in a multiplayer game.

And those with attitude problems online don't help either, even though there aren't many of them.

Exactly my sentiment - I didn't question whether I should buy Rebellion or not.  I put my preorder in the day I found out about it.  Very few games in my life have achieved a certain "status" as far as hours played.  SOASE stands shoulder to shoulder with greats like Quake (1 and 3) and Doom (1 and 2).  For me, it's a matter of supporting future endeavors from IronClad and a desire to see future SOASE type games from them.  For me, Diplomacy was a bust as I don't think I have spent more than 2 hours playing it.  But I do not think it was a waste of money.

Of course, my patience is not unlimited (and neither is my bank account).  Poor customer service or a disregard for the customers will make me flip like *snap*.  But I haven't yet seen any indication that IronClad will rest on its laurels any time soon.  Nobody can make a hit 100% of the time.  I'm betting on Rebellion with the equity of Entrenchment.

All kidding aside, I think the big thing, bigger than any of the others is simply that ICO is not advertised enough! More than that, there should be something on the initial ICO screen in game, 'If you can not connect, your version may be out of date..." and also a link to the forums from within the game.

I've heard from a few people that eventually made it to the forums a few years back that they tried ICO, it didn't work, and they assumed that the service was down or that everything about the game had went under. They never tried to patch it. Sure they could have looked on the internet but if it isn't extremely easy to do, the large portion of people that pick this game up casually are NEVER going to venture online.

Just some thoughts.