its only beta atm

This is a wambulance, I hope you enjoy it more than Soase Rebellion.

I understand your point about constructive criticism, but I hope you understand that the level of dissatisfaction I have is because I was expecting a Beta to have small - medium issues that could be resolved if brought to the devs attention. I most assuredly was not expecting to pay 30$ for the exact same game I bought a long time ago. There is nowhere I can start to "help them fix things" because they have taken a fundamentally dishonest and erroneous approach to what they sold to me by re-releasing a game with very minor additions and changes and calling it an expansion worth 30-40-50$ (depending on various factors). 

The entire product is nothing more than a Mod. I'm sorry, you can nit pick all the little details you want and add them up and say that they changed over a 100 things, but that's not a valid way of looking at this product. Its the exact same game, with the exact same limitations, problems and eye sores of the game they release FOUR YEARS AGO but with Titans and a few tech options and a few new minor ships with a few tech options. That's not an expansion. That's an update. At BEST it could be called a Mod. And sadly enough, there are already FREE mods on this site itself that give you EXACTLY what Rebellion gives you, but with more variety.

And what are you talking about "four months makes me the biggest fan"? I said that I thought of myself as their biggest fan personally and metaphorically since 2008 and got as many friends I could to buy Trinity, and with this re-release they've turned me into a disillusioned client who feels tricked.I'm not sure what you meant by the four months thing...

As for trying to email support, I would gladly thank you for giving me the link or the email address, as I could not find it anywhere on this site or with search engine. I would much rather have emailed them personally because believe it or not, I would much rather have a higher chance of someone reading this who actually could appreciate what I said rather than appearing like I'm vying for attention on the forums.

I also don't understand your last comment...I'm not "taking my ball with me" or anything like that. I posted as politely and logically as I could what made me feel tricked and unsatisfied about this re-release of a game I already bought.

I'm sorry, but re-reading your post it is very apparent to me that you just don't agree with me, but having no logical points to offer in rebuttal, prefer to attack my message as being puerile or poorly expressed.

Here's the email: support@stardock.com

Here is a thread for how to ask on technical issues and send reports and the like as well.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/406587

I'm not a Stardock employee or moderator so I had to go look it up--sorry.

I do understand what you mean and how you feel.  I think you really just had a higher expectation based on what you wanted rather than what was stated and offered.

What I disagree with you on is that instead of sour milk posting you should have come on and stated specifically what it was you had expected to be there that wasn't.  That would have been valid and constructive.

As it stands it's just, "I expected more".  More what?  Based on what?

I don't think it was so much looking for attention that made you post--it was just reflex kicking the dog because you were disappointed.

Stardock has been more forgiving in refunding than just about any game company I have ever seen online.  I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have a problem if you asked.

I have a laundry list of things I think they should do.  Some I think are important for game play.  I know they won't all be there and some won't even get considered. If I feel really let down, I'll just move on.

I'll be disappointed at that but I appreciate the game for what it offers too.  There aren't any other games to go to that compare to Sins. 

As a somehwat experienced beta tester for more than one company, I also understand how hard it is to please the public and how venemous a small minority of players will become when they feel slighted.

You don't come across as venomous and were fairly polite but you didn't offer any advice on how the game could be improved--just a statement of dissatisfaction rendered as a final judgment.

Betas are ways to work on fixing and improving--that's why it was offered to you.

Okay maybe this guy went a little extreme to demand a refund, but he did say a lot of what i was thinking. I personally am completely unimpressed with rebellion, regardless of whether or not it is the first stage of a beta. I'll continue to play the various future versions of the beta with an open mind. Here is to optimistically hoping for more features (techs, ships, planets, effects, ect.) to be showcased to us loyal sins fans.

by the way issued some karma to the original poster for atleast voicing his opinion and not yielding to the naive general consensus of this beta...

It isn't a whitewash of all the unfulfilled things we'd like to see either.  If you're going to complain, point to what you want--not just gripe about it not being there without showing what "it" is.

What's missing here is a clear synopsis of what it is everyone wants that they are not seeing and suggestions about how it might be included.

Additionally, the work shown so far opens up a lot of doors in the modding side of things--I am biased there. That alone is exciting to me.  

There's no intended criticism for frank opinions directed towards improvement. Luxangel isn't wrong in his opinion and neither are you jadurnik.  Just provide feedback on what would make it better along with the "I don't like this".

My favorite and really satisfying change is the inclusion of the flagship and occupation victories.   Awesome.

What I haven't seen yet and HIGHLY want to see are changes and more options in and for Galaxy Forge.  Fix the broken template editor, expand it's features and add new features usable in it.  If Galaxy Forge remains as is, I'd see that as a failure (in that area).

It's a beta now, they have time to work on it.

And where they will get rewarded or punished is in sales and with the reputation it gains them.  Betas are for fixing.

It will change strategy--that's clear even with only two related factions seen so far.  I like your ideas and something like them may be there--or not.  Other people would want other things (me for example).

I do like the idea for choosing one tech path loses you others.

In some ways it is definitely an expansion--and they didn't represent the ships and factions as anything "never seen before". On the other hand, the engine improvements and newly coded assets are just that--not back portable, etc.  So in that sense, it is a new game.

I never had the impression that this would make old Sins obsolete or replace it and make it irrelevant.  It is a new release and comes bundled with the original game and three expansions.  Never really was billed as "a complete reinvention of the game".

For a new purchaser, it's a bargain--he gets everything that came before plus the new content and the options to play any version(s) he or she wants.

Those of us that have played it before can choose to look at it with a jaundiced eye but I was never under the impression that this was a full new incarnation--though if you had crammed this much into earlier versions of Sins they would have minidumped on start-up and then burst into flames.

I'd call it an expanded re-release myself.  From what I have seen so far, I consider it worth the cost. Things we have heard but haven't seen yet are ships that can destroy planets, a faction that doesn't need planets, etc.  Those are new things.

Posting them as feedback might accomplish something--bundling them on "you have failed me for the last time" threads probably won't.  As a beta tester, you actually have a chance to suggest changes.  I'd take advantage of the opportunity.

Well, these quote show that it is maybe really your fault...

Agree with you that there is no ship able to destroy planet in this beta, agree with you that Stardock have speak about so ship... problem is that you don't remember everything that that have say...

They have say that one of the Vasari faction will have a Titan who can be used as homeworld, that these titan will be able to suck dry a planet of his resource  and transform it in a death asteroid... as for the beta 1, it only include the 2 TEC faction, so it is normal to not have these Vasari Titan...

Are you sure that you have play the 2008 version... ask it because between the 2008 version and Rebellion, there is thousand of thing who have change... there was no starbase in 2008, no mines, no torpedo ship, no envoy ship, no titan, no corvette, etc...

As being a modder myself, i can say that it will have be impossible to make what is in Rebellion on the 2008 game... by example, the engine texture limit at the time was only 400... if modding have reach great level with sins, it is because devs have listen to modders and greatly expand the modding possibilities since 2008... and titan in mod, until now, was only glorified capitalship ( in my case personal case, glorified mobile starbase )...

Sure, if you compare Trinity with Rebellion, the change is not so big... sure, as previous owner of sins, ent, and dip ( or for any owner of trinity ), it will have be more pleasant to have a cheaper add-on version like for the two previous released... now, by buying Rebellion, i will end with with 2 sins + 2 ent + 2 dip + 1 reb... 

Well, it is certainly better that the Supreme Commander Forged alliance... a so called stand alone expension but where online play was limited to the new race seraphim if you don't own a serial of the original Supreme commander... SupcomFA only add little thing, like a orbital weaponery that some talented modders have use for make orbital spaceship and battle... well, it happen that i like SupCom and SupComFA and not SupComII because in place of add features, it remove features... Since 2008, each year, Stardock have give us a expension pack who add a lot to the original game... the only complain is the price tag of these last one... and this only concern previous owner of the game ( trinity or fip ) who was able to have a 25% discount... for newcomers, the 40$ full price ( i hate these xx.99 $ price ) is not so bad when you think that they will have sins+ent+dip+reb... 

Well, it is your right to ask a refund but remember that it is only the first beta... if you have follow the beta for the original sins, you will aknowledge that a lot of thing can change during a beta with stardock... they do listen to customer report and request... cannot make everybody happy but they try... 

As trickery, the only thing that you can complain about is the move from impulse reactor who was a annouced feature to Steam ( people have learn about it in a externe article )... for the rest, it seem to be like they have announce it...

By the way, as modders, i am pretty sure that the majority of modders will move to Rebellion, for use the new features or discover some features who was not announced... i don't think that there is any sane modder who wish to return modding sins 2008... moving our glorified capitalship ( modders titan ) to a real titan and having one free slot for a new capitalship... same thing with corvette, by example in a star war mod, the slot can be used for the popular CR90 corvette ( hammer head )... these is benefice in rebellion for modders who will allow us to make better mods that previously... sure there is not (yet ) everything that we ask for but there is more hope with a sins II and a iron3 engine ( iron2 multicore x64 engine is already made but it is for a ironclad fantasy game )...

Point is that it is too much early for judge Rebellion... final version will not be like the Beta... in fact these beta have only 33% of what can be the final version... sure, it is right to ask a refund but not based on half fact or wrong fact... accuse devs of trickery will not help you...

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