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Rovert10
Rovert10
Join Date 06/2011
+19

The Novalith Does Not Need a Nerf/Limit

April 21, 2012 10:48:14 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The amount of OP Novalith threads is becoming disheartening.

 

It's not the Novalith that's actually OP. After so long with the novalith for what 4 years? It's only spammable and what people call "OP" once TEC loyalists are able to just rush it out with just 6 military labs.

It is the flawed AI that can't seem to be do anything else.

The AI with TEC loyalists will just rush out the novalith cannon probably because there is nothing to research behind it.

 

If you are gonna "nerf" the Novalith. Don't put this 2 superweapon limit unless you want to nerf the TEC loyalists to the ground. Instead just put a few missle researches behind it. Not all of them but at least some so it isn't as rushable and spammable. That's all the Novalith needs to make it "less OP". It's just only too spamable if anything when the AI on harder difficulties have money cheats. A player wouldn't be able to rush this many but it's only the AI issue.

Also it's a superweapon for a reason. Heck it isn't even the best superweapon. The Vasari have the best superweapon since they can just skip all your defenses and just jump in with a large fleet on your capital if they wanted.

 

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Rovert10
Ryat
Join Date 06/2006
+429
Reply #1 April 21, 2012 11:06:35 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

/signed

Agree fully. Just need the damn AI to stop spamming superweapons so much. Think I liked them better when they didn't use them at all.

Though I wouldn't mind an option to remove them if I didn't want them.

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Rovert10
Mecha-Lenin
Join Date 02/2006
+36
Reply #2 April 21, 2012 11:08:34 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I've seen kostura used maybe 2-3 times since nerf. It is useful in some situations, but generally not worth the money.

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Rovert10
Rovert10
Join Date 06/2011
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Reply #3 April 21, 2012 11:12:04 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Mecha-Lenin,
reply 2
I've seen kostura used maybe 2-3 times since nerf. It is useful in some situations, but generally not worth the money.

Superweapons are generally not worth the money for any of them. Novalith included even with the TEC discount.

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Rovert10
wbino
Join Date 02/2008
+21
Reply #4 April 21, 2012 11:17:07 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

It just needs to be moved further back inthe tech tree.

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Rovert10
Mecha-Lenin
Join Date 02/2006
+36
Reply #5 April 21, 2012 11:20:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Rovert10,
reply 3

Quoting Mecha-Lenin, reply 2I've seen kostura used maybe 2-3 times since nerf. It is useful in some situations, but generally not worth the money.

Superweapons are generally not worth the money for any of them. Novalith included even with the TEC discount.

Novaliths are OK, not as awesome as old kosturas but still pretty decent.

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Rovert10
Blueshocked
Join Date 10/2009
0
Reply #6 April 21, 2012 11:20:47 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
so why not just add a toggle when setting up the game, to limit/allow/disable them, then everyone is happy.
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Rovert10
XubXub
Join Date 12/2011
+5
Reply #7 April 21, 2012 11:21:38 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Rovert10,
reply 3
Superweapons are generally not worth the money for any of them. Novalith included even with the TEC discount.


I'm tempted to agree, but the amount of shenanigans you can pull with a kostura and a fleet with an Antorak is fiendish. The big question on my mind is, if Vasari rebels get phase jumping orkys, does that mean you can shoot a world with the kostura and drop a fully upgraded orky on them? And, once the world is a burnt cinder, activate the orky's phase and jump back home? That sounds far too OP if so, but a sadistic part of me sort of hopes it's the case.

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Rovert10
mcintire
Join Date 04/2010
+7
Reply #8 April 21, 2012 11:25:30 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting XubXub,
reply 7

I'm tempted to agree, but the amount of shenanigans you can pull with a kostura and a fleet with an Antorak is fiendish. The big question on my mind is, if Vasari rebels get phase jumping orkys, does that mean you can shoot a world with the kostura and drop a fully upgraded orky on them? And, once the world is a burnt cinder, activate the orky's phase and jump back home? That sounds far too OP if so, but a sadistic part of me sort of hopes it's the case.
Yes, you will be able to just do that. Send in a 3weapons/4armor/1frontal deflectors or debris vortex SB and watch the mayhem. You can even send along a titan fleet if you want to. Having fully upgraded defenses on your backwards worlds is a must against Vasari players, even more so now with phasejumping SBs.

 

on-topic: superweapons don't need a nerv (delivarence needs a buff though), but I can agree to an optional limit.

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Rovert10
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #9 April 21, 2012 12:00:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I am pretty sure the devs explicitly stated that an imposed limit on the number of superweapons would be coupled with wide sweeping buffs to their effectiveness (and presumably, they would also be harder to obtain, likely through cost increases)....

With that in mind, to claim that limiting superweapons is a "nerf" is not entirely accurate...per weapon, they will be more powerful than they are now...how much more powerful I don't know, that will be up to the devs to decide...

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Rovert10
Rebell44
Join Date 02/2008
+3
Reply #10 April 21, 2012 12:15:48 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Quoting Blueshocked,
reply 6
so why not just add a toggle when setting up the game, to limit/allow/disable them, then everyone is happy.

I agree. As an example - such settings were IMO well implemented in Supreme Commander.

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Rovert10
XubXub
Join Date 12/2011
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Reply #11 April 21, 2012 12:16:33 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Seleuceia, any chance you remember where this was said? Wish these forums had a dev tracker...

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Rovert10
mcintire
Join Date 04/2010
+7
Reply #12 April 21, 2012 12:20:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, I never considered the limit bing nerf, just an annoying limit (always makes me think about HW2 with small fleet settings ). But there are voices claiming they needed to be less effective, which I kinda find ridiculous.

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Rovert10
Sonntagshut
Join Date 04/2009
+1
Reply #13 April 21, 2012 12:34:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Why can't superweapons not just be limited to 1/galaxy?

Or make them use up a Capital Command slot.

 

Any of these would require the supwerweapons to get buffed. But at the same time you could have fewer. I would rather have a powerful superweapon, than having the possibility of a TEC player having several Novaliths...

Thing is, Novalith stacking is good for something. Advent or Vasari Supweaponstacking won't win you anything. There's hardly any need for more than a maximum of 2 of those. While a TEC "could" still turtle and just shoot the hell out of his enemies ( as the only viable counterstrategy is building starbases with aux, but thats actually more expensive than a nova... ) ( yeah theres planetary shield, but only TEC got those...).

 

Or just make Novas unable to finish a planet, make them always leave 1 hp left .

 

 

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Rovert10
Qu4r
Join Date 07/2008
+16
Reply #14 April 21, 2012 12:38:51 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

How about returning kosturas to its proper pre-nerf form?

The effect wont be so deadly since titans are on the field.

Its also generates most fun and happieness among users (at least those who can use them properly)

 

Or remove superwepon , all of them. Kastrating kosturas was evil

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Rovert10
Timmaigh
Join Date 05/2009
+76
Reply #15 April 21, 2012 12:39:09 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting mcintire,
reply 8

Quoting XubXub, reply 7
I'm tempted to agree, but the amount of shenanigans you can pull with a kostura and a fleet with an Antorak is fiendish. The big question on my mind is, if Vasari rebels get phase jumping orkys, does that mean you can shoot a world with the kostura and drop a fully upgraded orky on them? And, once the world is a burnt cinder, activate the orky's phase and jump back home? That sounds far too OP if so, but a sadistic part of me sort of hopes it's the case.Yes, you will be able to just do that. Send in a 3weapons/4armor/1frontal deflectors or debris vortex SB and watch the mayhem. You can even send along a titan fleet if you want to. Having fully upgraded defenses on your backwards worlds is a must against Vasari players, even more so now with phasejumping SBs.

 

on-topic: superweapons don't need a nerv (delivarence needs a buff though), but I can agree to an optional limit.

 

I am fairly curious how the SB jumping will work... apparently it can call only to an adjacent gravity well, does that mean you can do only one jump with it and no more? Technically, unless you use phase stabilisers, you can always make a jump to adjacent gravity well only... we shall see
 

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Rovert10
Mecha-Lenin
Join Date 02/2006
+36
Reply #16 April 21, 2012 1:04:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Timmaigh,
reply 15

Quoting mcintire, reply 8
Quoting XubXub, reply 7
I'm tempted to agree, but the amount of shenanigans you can pull with a kostura and a fleet with an Antorak is fiendish. The big question on my mind is, if Vasari rebels get phase jumping orkys, does that mean you can shoot a world with the kostura and drop a fully upgraded orky on them? And, once the world is a burnt cinder, activate the orky's phase and jump back home? That sounds far too OP if so, but a sadistic part of me sort of hopes it's the case.Yes, you will be able to just do that. Send in a 3weapons/4armor/1frontal deflectors or debris vortex SB and watch the mayhem. You can even send along a titan fleet if you want to. Having fully upgraded defenses on your backwards worlds is a must against Vasari players, even more so now with phasejumping SBs.

 

on-topic: superweapons don't need a nerv (delivarence needs a buff though), but I can agree to an optional limit.

 

I am fairly curious how the SB jumping will work... apparently it can call only to an adjacent gravity well, does that mean you can do only one jump with it and no more? Technically, unless you use phase stabilisers, you can always make a jump to adjacent gravity well only... we shall see
 

They will probably jump at 50% normal speed or something like that. I will miss offensive SB deployment though, it took a bit of coordination to do it right.

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Rovert10
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
+240
Reply #17 April 21, 2012 1:14:21 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting XubXub,
reply 11
Seleuceia, any chance you remember where this was said? Wish these forums had a dev tracker...

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/422166/get;3130623

Quoting Qu4r,
reply 14
How about returning kosturas to its proper pre-nerf form?

This wouldn't really be a problem at all if they were limited in number...hell, if you could only have 1 kostura, you'd probably have to make it more powerful than it used to be....

Quoting Sonntagshut,
reply 13
Why can't superweapons not just be limited to 1/galaxy?

I've asked for this and I really really hope this is the route they go...or, at the very least, tie the limiting number (whatever it may be) to per galaxy (per player) instead of just per player...

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Rovert10
Rovert10
Join Date 06/2011
+19
Reply #18 April 21, 2012 1:32:05 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
reply 17
I've asked for this and I really really hope this is the route they go...or, at the very least, tie the limiting number (whatever it may be) to per galaxy (per player) instead of just per player...

I perfer not a limit to 1 per galaxy. If they do then I expect some horrifically huge buff like for a Novalith killing every ship in that gravity well as well as the planet.

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Rovert10
Pat_22_
Join Date 06/2011
+4
Reply #19 April 21, 2012 1:59:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Rovert10,
reply 18
Quoting Seleuceia, reply 17I've asked for this and I really really hope this is the route they go...or, at the very least, tie the limiting number (whatever it may be) to per galaxy (per player) instead of just per player...

I perfer not a limit to 1 per galaxy. If they do then I expect some horrifically huge buff like for a Novalith killing every ship in that gravity well as well as the planet.

 

Surely you guys mean one per solar system? A Galaxy is the combination of all the stars within it. One per Galaxy would equate to one per player, period, because any map played is one galaxy.

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Rovert10
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #20 April 21, 2012 2:02:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Pat_22_,
reply 19
Surely you guys mean one per solar system?

Technically, yes...

Of course, considering how Sins graphically portrays each solar system, they might as well be galaxies...

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Rovert10
Pat_22_
Join Date 06/2011
+4
Reply #21 April 21, 2012 2:17:07 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
reply 20
Quoting Pat_22_, reply 19Surely you guys mean one per solar system?

Technically, yes...

Of course, considering how Sins graphically portrays each solar system, they might as well be galaxies...

 

"I'm sending the third fleet to the Hanar system" sounds much cooler than "I'm sending the third fleet to the Hanar galaxy".

 

Your argument is invalid.

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Rovert10
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #22 April 21, 2012 2:23:46 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wrong game dude...

Sins gives solar systems the same spiral graphics as a galaxy...while logic and lore indicate they are solar systems, they sure as hell don't look like them...and honestly, just how many solar systems are there with 100+ planets in them?  Probably not very many...

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Rovert10
martox1
Join Date 01/2010
+3
Reply #23 April 21, 2012 2:23:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Timmaigh,
reply 15


I am fairly curious how the SB jumping will work... apparently it can call only to an adjacent gravity well, does that mean you can do only one jump with it and no more? Technically, unless you use phase stabilisers, you can always make a jump to adjacent gravity well only... we shall see

back in beta 1 i was playing with it and i was jumping them all over the place lol. using the cannon to send them out and wipe out shit. but u can only have one per well i tried several different ways to try to get more than on in a well but it didnt work

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Rovert10
mcintire
Join Date 04/2010
+7
Reply #24 April 21, 2012 2:24:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Erm, Seleuceia... the post you linked to only implies that they might bump up the number of permitted weapons, not their strenght.

 

Edit: counting minor planetary bodies (moons, asteroids, etc... ) sol system has more than 100 planetary bodies.

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Rovert10
Pat_22_
Join Date 06/2011
+4
Reply #25 April 21, 2012 2:30:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
reply 22
Wrong game dude...

Sins gives solar systems the same spiral graphics as a galaxy...while logic and lore indicate they are solar systems, they sure as hell don't look like them...and honestly, just how many solar systems are there with 100+ planets in them?  Probably not very many...

 

Not sure. When was the last time you took a drive around our neighborhood galactic systems?

Earth has one moon, Uranus has 27. Just because our sun only has 8 planets and pluto does not mean others can't have much much more.

 

Also what Mcintire said.

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