Diplomacy in Rebellion

from Sins Forums

It might just be my imagination, but rep with AI seems to take a lot longer to attain since the last patch. There's a cap on the relations that increases with time which... just seems to take a lot longer now. Before, I never even noticed it, and could get to the envoy stage pretty rapidly with anyone. I don't see anything in the patch notes to indicate a change. I do allied victory, everything else is default.

Has anyone else noticed this? Don't know if all that playing with only TEC factions skewed my perspective, but this just seems to play different.

11,720 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

There's a setting that determines the "Diplomacy rate", perhaps you forgot to set it to fastest?

 

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1
There's a setting that determines the "Diplomacy rate", perhaps you forgot to set it to fastest?

 
End of GoaFan77's quote


No, I never mess with those settings. It took me about an hour and a half to two hours to get that cap from ~3 to the 4.5 so I could start the envoy phase. I could throw infinite resources at him, but it just wouldn't raise past a certain point. TEC loyalist while the AI was Advent loyalist. Most of the useful diplo perks were maxed at this point. As I said, maybe I'm missing something obvious, or it's the factions, but it didn't seem nearly this much effort before.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting XubXub, reply 2
TEC loyalist while the AI was Advent loyalist.
End of XubXub's quote

Remember that Advent Loyalist wish to destroy TEC leading to bad relationship rating. The Advent Rebels think that revenge has clouded the Unity so they may be more lenient. Faction side does change the relationship.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Ryat, reply 3
Quoting XubXub, reply 2TEC loyalist while the AI was Advent loyalist.

Remember that Advent Loyalist wish to destroy TEC leading to bad relationship rating. The Advent Rebels think that revenge has clouded the Unity so they may be more lenient.
End of Ryat's quote

 

I was thinking that. TEC Rebels, Advent Loyalists and Vasari Loyalists are probably harder to build relationships with because all they want is to destroy the other factions.

 

Tec Loyalists, Advent and Vasari Rebels are more inclined towards peace.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

To Ryat and Pat,

Advent rebels were still alive and not ENTIRELY mad at me, so tried the same with them. Not only did it take maybe 15 minutes to get them buttered up to the envoy stage, they also sent me an envoy so fast I half suspect they were already planning on it when I gave them the quest. Advent loyalists, on the other hand, were in the process of letting the send envoy time out for the third time. This could be a fluke, as I had the AI personalities set to random, and am not sure what they are currently, but this supports it at least.

I had noticed the big, red 5.00 in diplomacy under factions, but I guess vastly underestimated how important it was.

EDIT: The rebels sent me five more envoys while I was writing this reply. Huh.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Ive posted about this before too. They have hamstrung a lot of the diplomacy in rebellion. Hopfully somthing that will be fixed. As it stands you only seem to have a chance getting a ceasfire, and especialy a peace treaty with somone that is your race AND faction. And dont count on getting pacts at all. The AI wont send envoys and in  the last build of diplo they mad it so you need both of you to have the high approval numbers. Really. I like you, and want a pact with you, why does the game seem to think im leary of you.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting StarFallArmada, reply 6
Ive posted about this before too. They have hamstrung a lot of the diplomacy in rebellion. Hopfully somthing that will be fixed. As it stands you only seem to have a chance getting a ceasfire, and especialy a peace treaty with somone that is your race AND faction. And dont count on getting pacts at all. The AI wont send envoys and in  the last build of diplo they mad it so you need both of you to have the high approval numbers. Really. I like you, and want a pact with you, why does the game seem to think im leary of you.
End of StarFallArmada's quote

 

Well that game mechanic was implemented so in multiplayer games people can't just full-pact up right as the game starts and have a massive advantage over others right off the bat.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting StarFallArmada, reply 6
They have hamstrung a lot of the diplomacy in rebellion. Hopfully somthing that will be fixed. As it stands you only seem to have a chance getting a ceasfire, and especialy a peace treaty with somone that is your race AND faction. And dont count on getting pacts at all.
End of StarFallArmada's quote

Quoting Pat_22_, reply 7
Well that game mechanic was implemented so in multiplayer games people can't just full-pact up right as the game starts and have a massive advantage over others right off the bat.
End of Pat_22_'s quote

Pat, how does this prevent multiplayer pacts, or how is it implemented?  And what about if there is locked teams?  Especially since locked teams are the most common form of online games.  I don't think it limits multiplayer at all!  But maybe I am missing something? 

It definitely screws with the AI, and I agree with StarFall, that displomacy is hamstrung in rebellion (unlocked single player).  Probably primarily because the relations penalty between hostile races has been increased so much without an offsetting mechanic? 

Getting differing pacts with another race is sooo much better than with your own race.  There needs to be a reasonable means of accomplishing that. 

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting SageWon, reply 8
Pat, how does this prevent multiplayer pacts, or how is it implemented? And what about if there is locked teams? Especially since locked teams are the most common form of online games. I don't think it limits multiplayer at all! But maybe I am missing something?
End of SageWon's quote

 

It does not prevent multiplayer pacts, but stops two players from getting them too early, like in a 5-man FFA where two players would ally right at the beginning of the game and give each other full pacts. Instead, to get the pacts, they need to build up relationship first, that way it takes time and the other players can see it before it's too late.

 

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Pat_22_, reply 9

Quoting SageWon, reply 8Pat, how does this prevent multiplayer pacts, or how is it implemented? And what about if there is locked teams? Especially since locked teams are the most common form of online games. I don't think it limits multiplayer at all! But maybe I am missing something?

 

It does not prevent multiplayer pacts, but stops two players from getting them too early, like in a 5-man FFA where two players would ally right at the beginning of the game and give each other full pacts. Instead, to get the pacts, they need to build up relationship first, that way it takes time and the other players can see it before it's too late.

 
End of Pat_22_'s quote

 

Yea, except with two people, all you have to do to "build relations" is give each other the basic missions over and over and research the early diplo upgrades. Send each other 2-3 envoys and you have your early pacts. The slowing process is minimal to what it was before. And as others said its common in multi to just have set teams off the bat anyway. All the current diplo build does is make AI dumbness stand in the way of a diplo strategy. It was bad enough in the final diplo build (i purposely didn't upgrade to the final patch for months) but with the new faction modifiers in rebellion its just plain untenable. I understand if your playing TEC rebs or Advent Loyals it should be pretty hard to get foreign relations since they are all about hate and xenophobia. But there should be little to nothing in the way of REC loyals and advent rebs from being able to ally with each other and get pacts cause that part of their story/strategy (or was that final scene in the intro cinematic a lie? :-p )