Vasari OP in any maps.

You need to explain what makes them OP before I'd agree, At this point in time TEC is overpowered as far as unit cost efficency and economy is concerned. The Vasari Loyalists atm have a monstrous economic advantage with stripped that could be adressed but beyond that they are working as intended increasing the time it takes to scuttle planets would be a good place to start (as this would balance strip and delay their economic advantage).

The Rebels are OP because of the low tier traveling orky (This one doesnt need to be explained. My Suggestion with the traveling orky is to make the upgrade give a starbase upgrade that is unique upgrade (1 active per game), this would fix many issues and consume an upgrade slot.

The Vasari titans atm are not the best, the Antimatter drain on the VR Titan is over the top and could use some tuning but compared to the other racial counterparts they are quite weak.

You joking? Nanoleech isn't "a bit over the top", it's a single ability that's more powerful then entire other titans,  In a single ability it pretty much hardcounters everything except for bombers and titans at later ranks.  And the VRT's other abilities are nothing to scoff at either.

The VLT sucks I'll grant you, but the VRT is one of the reasons the vasari rebels are OP(a smaller reason then mobile orkies of course).

Also for the loyalists, the second rank of capitalship-borne research labs is every bit as OP as stripped to the core is(also without changing it it ebcoems more or less impossible to make stripped to the core come out later in the game as will likely be necessary).

Lastly the level 6 ability of the new Vasari capitalship is also OP- having it create permanent free ships that don't consume fleet supply and are capable of jumping is a problem for balance

Vasari rebels sb phase jump rush on small maps

Vasari Loyalist njam njam planet rush on medium or large maps

Semantics. It is overpowered, very much so.

The VLT is pretty horrid, Terrible DPS (Doesnt scale with research, useless phase cannon), Cooldown on Phase stabilizer, The Maw is pretty much bugged if you've looked at other threads (Wave count v.s animation and effect), Desperation is fine and will be quite good if the DPS issues are resolved.

The Rankulus has alot of problems for one nanites being able to phase jump (Bug? Feature?) and obviously the fact that the combat nanites and Ult nanites take up 0 fleet supply. And maybe i'm an idiot but the armor debuff nanites doesnt work?

If they do, the debuff doesn't show up on the affected unit's infocard (which more than likely means, no.  They don't work).  As far as I can tell, the structure-assault nanites are garbage for assaulting structures in their current form.

Not that either Vasari faction really needs them right now, of course. 

L2P

Although the damage it deals is inadequate, the Vasari Loyalist Titan has that nice ability to phase jump in gravwell, which makes it better than many think.

80% of people play vasari on MP. I can face roll almost anyone with vasari.

I think my skills at game are not the issue here.

and which opponents do you face--let me guess, vasari rebels, advent rebels, tec rebels.

Not even Advent rebels these days. I never see Advent players around anymore since they just get rolf-stomped by the sheer number of Vasari players.

You either go Vasari Loyalists/Rebels or you go TEC rebels. I don't see much of anything else.

Ok, let me phrase it like this.

If you are a VL in eco spot, you will not only get better eco than anything else in eco spot, you can also use your capship labs to skirmish in to enemy territory and omnomnom planets. Effecticly denying them any hope for eco.

It is next to impossible to catch vasari caps if you have marauder. And sine you can save the lab costs while making cap ships and have exstra slots for any economy, you actualy get returns from investing in capital ships. Something no other race gets.

Anyone who have played diplo with me knows i am a huge capship spamming whore. But in earlier versions Ive always took a risk, now i can just run my fleet and economy at the same time without sacrificing a squat. The only reason i dont play so often this fuckshit awfully balanced piece of crap race right now is not to get used to this easy mode play style.

The VR are less of obnoxious, because even tho the moving orky is scary. At least with VR, you have to actually eco up and watch for harass. Even so, moving orky is a bullshit beyond proportions. Even when vasari could not phase space orkies, vasari eco player could easily spamm well upgraded orkies all fucking over map. No pop cap on orky kind of allows it. Now you dont even need to spamm them. Now you can just build an orky in safety of your planets, and move its fully upgraded arse down the enemy throat. The VR titan is also a big time shenanigans, since it can disable a whole fleet of balanced units. If you are planning going something else than full fleet of bombers against that, forget it. All your hoshikos or guardians are going to sit there uselessly.

I dont know what the devs were smoking when they did this but i want some of that. Other races dont even come close to this level of shenanigans. Both other 2 races have all they "super" stuff focused on defense. Advent nor tech can really do anything remotely as gay as vasari can when playing offensively. And we all know that playing defensively against vasari is just asking to getting your ass kicked.

I agree with 90% of this thread but let's not rage too hard here people.  It's a Beta.  You can pretty much guarantee new elements are going to be either OP (phase jumping StarBases, ninja planet eating, VRT nano leech) or UP (VLT).  

I like that the devs are adding new outlandish things like this into the game.  You won't find this kind of stuff in Starcraft.  Now it just has to be balanced.

I had a game of starcraft 2 with my cousin-who  loves advent rebels, hates nano-leech and now im going to play Diablo 3..

As you can imagine we have 2 copies of rebellion: 2 copies in the whole family.. that's not normal. Anyway his damn good at the game, im better but as you can imagine we can't be playing this game right now.. everything seems so op^ or up^

The recourses you get from the planet is just stupendously high...

If it was less, you would be better keeping the planets to get the money and resources conventional way as the other factions.

Based on what calculations? Even halfed, the bonuses are still way worth your while if you are in eco spot, raiding enemy planets.

Hell, the ability is cool even if you had 0 income from planet, ability to shit all over enemy side and ruin all the juicy terras and deserts? WHY NOT?

My calculations are same as yours, when you say, its stupendously high.

if you have 0 income from planet, how would you get money? Or do you suggest making the dark ships summoned from phase gates free?

finally, you ruin all YOUR juicy terras and deserts.
 

This. As mentioned before there is nothing wrong with the resources you get it's the speed it which you get the research and the speed at which the planets are stripped is the issue. If changes are made to this ability the ability should be given a passive that allows planets in hostile culture to be colonized and stripped.

Ok, maybe Its just me, or maybe I just don't play against the right people, but I almost always play Advent, and usually Rebels, And 9 times out of ten I can flatten any Tec player, and about 60% of the time beat vasari. On the rare occations I play tec, I sort of hold my own, but I haven't been able to win any games as the Vasari, even against the AI on single player, unless I put the computer on normal or weaker. If the Vasari or so OP, what am I doing wrong?

I played Sins, Entrench, and Diplo, and was able to win as all three races in the older games, but not in rebellion.

I'm just a little confused.

As a huge Vasari fan (I can't stress this enough), I think they're way overpowered. I literally had a fleet of Corvettes (about 25 or so) destroy a level 1 Marza Dreadnought in the orbit of a blue star (cue laughter of Sulsurak Corvette pilot). The Titans themselves are also ridiculously strong, and the phase-jumping Orky was literally a last straw. I can understand the need to add more features, but I think these things have to be nerfed or delayed completely.

1. The vasari Corvette is the worst (T2 and more taxing than the other races), Loyalists are good against Horiko fleets, rebels are good against advent.

2. Titans are fine in terms of power, the problem is people can build them and retain levels something has to be done with titans dying and being rebuilt whether they are more expensive or a level lost per death....something.

3. Yes the VR Orky is overpowered atm.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding but it seems like this conversation assumes that the VL player is always going completely mobile.  There's no rule in the book that says you 'must' use this ability to immediately ravage every single planet you come across, including your own.

Neutrals and planets closer to your opponent are just as lucrative (moreso since they deny resources to your opponent) and they'll provide the same spread of ~35k resources or less for 30 seconds of wait time.  I won't pretend to be an expert but that strikes me as a pretty significant advantage no matter where you get it, especially in team games. 

Like Siddy said, this ability would be worthwhile on the front lines if it didn't give any resources at all - just to keep a pile of logistic/tactical slots and income out of your opponent's hands permanently.

Maybe a solution would be to reduce the resources given from stripped when you own more than one planet and the full amount if it's the only planet you have colonized.

Edit: I think we need to try and reward players who go entirely mobile, the VL become imbalanced when you consider the ability to be a hybrid between the two.

While I generally agree with your first points (altho payouts are too high, esp for Volcanos).  I cannot fathom your complaints about not being able to colonize in hostile culture.  And vehemently disagree there.

Hostile culture has always slowed or prevented colonization!  And IS the only real counter to StrippedTTCore.  So NO, that ability shouldn't be changed.

Yeah, I agree, and the instant destruction of enemy structures is also over the top. 

An increase in the amount of time it takes to scuttle/strip could help reduce its OPness.  Long enough to force required killing of all siege frigates, and suffering some negative income, if those upgrades aren't paid for.

That is an excellent point.  (Good to see you back, man!)  With the upgrade that allows a cap to count as two civic and two military research labs, four capital ships = 16 logistics spots!  That is essentially more powerful than the TEC level 6 upgrade that gives you an extra logistic slot on each planet (at least for online multiplayer PvP where it's very unlikely that anyone would have more than 16 planets).  That's like having 16 extra trade ports.