Disclaimer: All Caps sentances are meant to increase the ease of the target reader's (in this case, Ekko) viewing of certain key points because he has created reasonable doubt via his replies that show a lack of reading comprehension.
Lol - man you are really personally invested in this thread.
Na, its more of a personality trait, I have time to help people understand my point of view and to point out the obvious errors in the opposing points of view. Many multiplayer's who responded to this thread play vasari anyways, so there is an obvious bias...YAWN, I was hoping for a better reply from you but....okay. Also, using the statement "it can be countered" is pretty lame...its like duh, anything in the game can be countered. What you should be saying is that it can be reasonably countered, as in countered in actual games vs. actual skilled players. But then you would be over reaching on your statement and i'd be able to gobble that up reply in two seconds...lol.
Why would vasari multiplayer's be biased against this idea? Because they know that if this suggestion gets implemented their easy-lol wins will be harder to come by because they won't have a built in advantage anymore.
My point was that I don't want to see this annoying and cheesy playstyle of offensive SB sieging made the norm for all factions.
Wait what are you saying? So if SB rush is easy to deal with against Vasari why would SB rushes with Advent or TEC be bad? Playing against you they'd be doomed to your bombers, wouldn't they? No offense intended.
Thanks Sel for pointing out the biggest hole in his position. If all factions can use this starbase mechanic, then all factions have to be wary of its use. Right now the game plays like using a football playbook where most teams aren't allowed to use the best play, while a few favored teams get to ram that play down your throat time and time again. If you nerf the play, then a fun aspect of the game is altogether gone. I'd rather see that fun aspect expanded... Giving everyone access to that play, with varying degree's of efficacy would be easy to implement and retain the fun factor of using that play.
I'm glad you posted this replay ekko, here's your quote from the other thread:
This is all about Starbases this game. The main interesting fights are JakeMac vs. Aquia (Advent vs. Vasari), CarpetBomb vs. Howthe? (Advent vs. Vasari) and myself vs. Bombshell (Advent vs. Advent). Eros and Archa are in a stalemate most of the game and the other 2 are eco slots. There is quite a bit of offensive SB usage. The other team's eco player complained at the end about being #1 eco but his team still losing. It's all in the post game stats. You can see he made way more credits but also hoarded them more and didn't feed as much as our eco player. It's something I always check because I want to see how much my winning or losing depended on feed. In this game I was happy to see I won my battles despite getting less feed. In Aquia's case I felt bad because people probably think, he's Aquia, he doesn't need feed! Anyway, hope you enjoy.
If you watch my matchup with howthe you notice one thing, that he gets fed consistently twice as many resources as I do. I do agree that our feeder was totally lame and never fed any of us nearly as enough cash...Howthe was fed about 50k credits, while I was fed 25k...This allowed him to almost instantly rebuild his heavy fleet losses.
So, my early rush on howthe was going fine, then he started building starbases(predictably). You will notice how quickly and easily he was able to totally thwart my entire assault and defend himself. If he'd been smart and snuck a starbase to my HW while my fleet was engaged a more than a few jumps away from my homeworld he would have won hands down, but howthe wasn't playing that well, even with the feed. There would be NOTHING I could have done to stop the loss of my HW if he'd snuck in a starbase at that point. It comes down to vasari build starbases, and they win. Its because their starbases can move to threaten fleets. Its really that simple, and that one sided in most cases.
So, once I gained the fleet advantage on howthe, I should have been able to attack him ya? But wait, its the orkulus starbase that would eat my destras for lunch...So I have to sit there while he gets feed and his fleet gets built up. Look at the skill involved, He avoids attack because I just can't attack him because he's built his moving starbase, while I have to endure the fact that my fleet is impotent to his starbases. Its a stalemate that howthe needs to have almost zero skill to achieve. Its a warm safety blanket that snuggles all vasari players.
I could build starbases of my own, but that would be a waste of credits because THEY DON'T MOVE, AND BECAUSE THEY DON'T MOVE THEY AREN'T WORTH THE CREDITS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T THREATEN HOWTHE'S FLEET. If i'd been building starbases howthe would have rolled through me easily because he was building bombers, and since advent starbases can't move, I can never force his bombers to move except with my fleet, which means I'll be incurring losses in transit to those bombers, Losses that I CANNOT AFFORD. I should have been able to defend with starbases at that point without a severe gimping of my capability. After all, I had bought myself a bunch of time, something that is very difficult to do against a skilled opponent, especially against howthe playing as vasari. There are no mechanics in the game that reward the advent for superior play. Somehow the whole faction is balanced around the fact that they HAVE to eco up and they HAVE to spend 100% of their credits on themselves to have a good fleet. Its usually difficult to eco as advent on the front lines, while its easy for TEC and vasari to do so because vasari just need 1 orkulus and 2 phase jump inhibitors to defend their gravity wells. Why? because the orkulus CAN MOVE TO KILL AN INHIBITED FLEET(this explanation brought to you by your friendly neighborhood carpetbomb).
Note:If the advent/TEC starbases costed half of what a vasari starbase did that would balance the situation a bit as well. I'm not stating that my suggestion is the only way(as i've stated many times in this thread), i've been stating that this is the best way to add something fun to the game instead of taking away something old.
Anyways, Ekko you didn't see in chat after the game where howthe said "wow, I suck". Its because he knew that despite all the inherent advent vs. vasari matchup advantages he had, and with twice the feed, I held the line. Sure, I have a blazing moment of glory at the very start of the game, yet no advent player can really hold the line against a vasari player for too long if that player is getting even a little feed, as vasari starbases ensure that even with a small feed advantage the vasari still have a long term advantage. Its been a consistent aspect of gameplay that has existed since entrenchment, and it exists because vasari starbases can move and the other's cannot.
Also, Ekko you are seeing one of the few players in the game that can really give those good vasari players the run for their money as advent, so thanks for posting the replay. Even so, a better vasari player would have been on my HW with a starbase early on and I would have been 100% unable to counter it.
So Ekko, we wouldn't want to give everyone this ability to trap fleets like the vasari can, because they have to be the ONLY race capable of it because they deserve this nice warm safety blanket. I wouldn't mind having a blanky too!!!
I've played more MP in Rebellion than you have
The amount you play it has no bearing on your ability to perform within the games limits, once you have learned how to play multiplayer matches.
Could Advent really have a chance early game?? Advent have a chance in the early game sure, its their short lived advantage. Starbases, especially with some overseers, are a long term advantage that usually allows the vasari superior units to be acquired in enough number and type to create the "perfect fleet" that will roll through anyone. This usually is just a lasurak spam because nothing really survives very long under attack from 100 vasari bombers. Also, the vasari can very quickly turn that force into defensive fighter squadrons for orkulus's because they have so few fighters in their squads. Oh and on top of that they get phase node tech's, so vasari players are rarely threatened except via their own incompetence. Skilled players don't have this issue.
Also, if you think Vasari SB are OP (and I do think they are a tad strong),
Good, you agree with me that the vasari starbases are in need of balancing. There are more ways to do this then just nerfing the orkulus. Perhaps it will be done as its the simplest fix, but i'd rather enjoy having more options for all players.
The normal SB is powerful but I don't think you've demonstrated why it is OP enough to require such a drastic change to the others.
I've clearly demonstrated this, its just you aren't reading/thinking.
You are instead just being taunting, because you want to make it seem that i'm somehow emotionally reacting to people opposing me.