Tumbler

[I]Your right, carriers and close comabt ships do not mix. But what I am tring to point out is why(as well as what we could do to fix it). The reason that they don't mix, is that long range can not support close range ships, and close range can not support short range. That why I said there should be something do, so that carriers and close comabt ships can work together. This is also why there are abour 4 post on HC vs Carriers, as you can not find a middile ground.[/I] I suppose we're

[I]So is it just me or is what I said in my last post wrong, because I think that the true problem is that you can't use long range and close range combat together.[/I] Edit: Whoops confused you with an earlier post. And I think you're wrong because having a fleet that has long range support and close range vessels will do less damage over the long term that a fleet using all close range vessels. Assuming the fleets are a fair fight, your close range vessels will fall under his

[I]Here's the Effective DPS per Supply of non-upgraded Lasurak Transporters vs: Fighters(using Fighters): 0.83 Bombers(using Fighters): 1.92 Long-Range Frigates(using Fighters): 2.56 Light Frigates(using Bombers): 1.07 Support Cruisers(using Bombers): 1.07 Heavy Cruisers(using Bombers): 2.136 Structures(using Bombers): 2.136 Capital Ships(using Bombers): 1.60 The Lasurak Fighters can also blockade trade/refinery ships for low risk, defend from siege

Per Phoebus the Greatest in the other thread regarding this issue: [I]Cost for cost, compared to Carrier Cruisers with Bombers, Assailants do: 133.5% more damage to light armor 250.3% more damage to medium armor 75.2% more damage to heavy armor 12.5% less damage to very heavy armor 16.8% more damage to Capital Ships The Assailants also have 18.9% more effective health. It doesn't matter that your carrier cruisers are sitting on the edge of the gravi

Great Stats Phoebus, thanx [I] 133.5% more damage to light armor 250.3% more damage to medium armor 75.2% more damage to heavy armor 12.5% less damage to very heavy armor 16.8% more damage to Capital Ships[/I] That means that is we double the damage of bombers the numbers would for assailants would be: 33.5% more damage to light armor 150.3% more damage to medium armor 25.2% LESS damage to heavy armor 112.5% LESS damage to very heavy ar

By destroying the Cruiser Carriers/Carrier. The frigates will catch and kill cruiser carriers with ease, against a carrier cap ship it's a bit more difficult.

[I]Won't those large groups of strikecraft work quite well once you've thinned down the ranks of flak frigates with regular combat ships?[/I] No. Strikecraft do absolutely miserable damage for their cost. If your opponent spends the same credits making frigates, LRM frigates, anything besides carriers/strikecraft you'll get plastered.

[I]Tumbler, 4 drone hosts killing 4 out of 10 frigates, without any real fleet, is a good result. They have a support role, of course they won't work alone. Also they work only when the alpa strike is enough to kill or almost kill frigates, so a test with 4 carriers will of course result in dead carriers.[/I] Prove it. Put 15 of them in a battle and match them up with something costing approx the same points/resources. Put them against anything you want and they'll lo

I've got a thread running on this same topic. Should be an interesting read for anyone interested. Highly suggest comment 29 (Fighter/Bomber balance tests) and 54 (more tests). The tests indicate that strikecraft don't match up to the cost of other units you can buy so in response to the OP concerns about using them vs churning out other units, you're correct. Strike Craft don't make sense. [link="https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/304193/"]WWW Link[/link]

[quote]By throwing all these equal units on both sides, you are simply introducing "noise" into the experiment.[/quote] I agree but many people have mentioned that carriers need to be used in a support role and this experiment would possibly offer some proof to that argument if the force with the carrier came out on top in this battle. I think the simple tests against simple units show clearly that the carrier is underpowered. I think any other capital ship would defeat the sma

[I]Cruiser Carriers aren't even a counter to Light Frigates at all. It's the other way around. Bombers kill Heavy Cruisers, Structures, and Capital Ships. Fighters kill Fighters, Bombers, Scouts, Long-Range Frigates, Siege Frigates, and Civilian Ships. Where does "Light Frigate" come in here? Your putting Carrier Cruisers' direct counter against them.[/I] My previous tests showed that a single carrier with fighters or bombers both fail miserably at stopping a wave of 10 light frigates.

[I]Because carriers have such an absurd effective range, they can deal damage without fear of reprisal. Their effectiveness is only mitigated by the employment of flak frigates or other carriers, which is, IMO, pretty great, because flak frigates are nigh useless against anything but fighters/bombers/LRMs.[/I] I think the latest test of 10 frigates vs 1 carrier that started on the other side of the system and moved as soon as the enemy got close should make it clear that these things ar

[I]Tumbler, you used BOMBERS against light frigates, of COURSE they got decimated. That's a no brainer, I could've told you that.[/I] Bombers do more damage to Light Frigates than fighters do. See earlier testing for proof. The only thing fighters do better is vs LRM frigates and bombers. (see posting by devs on 1.04 updates) What I'm trying to get at is that the point cost to deploy fighters/bombers is too high for the damage they do. They just aren't worth it. Use them all yo

Latest Testing: Cruiser Carriers! Was Advent vs TEC. Put 10 Light Frigates vs 4 Cruiser Carriers. Costs don't line up too well because the cruiser carrier needed 500 less credits, 100 more metal, and 200 more crystal but I figured I'd give this a shot. 4 Cruiser Carriers w/7 bombers each / 10 Frigates Result 0 Cruiser Carriers / 8 Frigates This was a head to head fight, worst case scenario, enemy jumps in right on top of you, you don't mic

[I]Main point> as far as fighters and bombers being the weakest link in the game balance, it all depends on your play style, i know there Should be some players out there that will be able to open your eyes as to the value of the fighter/bomber squadron.... i'm looking forward to seeing you post some positive constructive remarks on the subject once that day does happen.[/I] Thank you for the props first, and I don't want to give anyone the wrong idea of my feelings about fighters and b

[I]I call that an exploitive bunch of bullshit not worth participating in. Good bye to SoSE and good bye to all so called MP computer games. I refuse to be the sacrificial scape goat to this sort of bull shit. No thanks.[/I] Quit being such a baby. You just faced the no win scenario and you failed miserably. Captain Kirk would not be pleased. Play games with small fleet sizes if that is such a problem. If players have to spend more points getting logistics before they can sp

am online if anyone is looking for a game atm

They seem pretty dominant as is... I'd rather they not change anything. Doubling the cost/supply would also make losing one a whole lot tougher to survive from. Right now I feel like the ships can be easily replaced and doubling the cost would mean losing your cap ship might easily lose the game.

[I]P.S. I'd also love another tech tab and lab to build. Same slots available, just priorities to have, choices to make and what to do and give up doing (for now). [/I] I like this idea. Reminds me of Company of Heroes battlefield doctrines. I'd love to see them establish a new tech tree that builds on one of the races strengths and locks off other avenue's. I like the game as it is today so I'm hoping they do not go back and change the tech tree around. It does feel a bit

[I]While this may seem odd, in a 4v4 game as Vasari I did NOT go RA, and instead build 4 (FOUR!!!) Skintara carrier cap ships. Other than that, I massed nearly half assailants and half anti-strike ships (can't remember the name). Flying in tight formation with repair cloud and sending out the ~20-24 bombers (fully upgraded)at their cap ships and then heavy cruisers, I was able to take out every last cap ship from across the star's well before the actual fighting began. My anti-strikecraft frigat

Does anyone want to play a game that focus's on you using Fighters/Bombers and me not using them? (I won't use flak Frigates) I'd like to play a full game on a small map that has one side using fighters and bombers any way they can while I use a force without these weapons and see if you stand up to me? I know flak frigates would make the game pointless but I'll use everything but those ships and do my best to beat you and you can report back the results of this game? It's possible ther

[I]innociv's post with suggestions for the 1.035 or 1.04 patch is a good place to check if you haven't seen it yet.[/I] I just read these suggestions and from what I saw it sounds like they are not doing enough to make fighters/bombers useful. The numbers seem to make the fighters more useful against the small frigates but it's on par with what the bombers already do so what is the point...? Bombers suck against small frigates right now too so the changes they suggest are a step in the

[I]The strikecraft themselves are winning me games, but from fleets of capital ship carriers and fixed hangar bases.[/I] Are we talking about Multiplayer games? If so I'd love to see games where you think strike craft are helping you win because anyone who uses strikecraft against me gets their butt handed to them on a platter. I've seen my opponent deploy 4 Hangar defenses bases and have full swarms all over my fleet and I walk through them with ease. I've deployed 1

Carrier Testing with Bombers and Fighters. Setup is Advent carrier with extra strike craft upgrades. (first one free) Carrier with full fighter with at start is 20 fighters. 2 Squadrons of 10 each. 1 Carrier w/2 squadrons of fighters (20) vs 10 Light frigates Result 0 Carrier / 7 Light frigates remain 1 Carrier w/2 squadrons of bombers (16) vs 10 Light Frigates Result 0 Carrier / 5 Light Frigates remain 1 Carrier w/2 squadrons of fight

[I]If a 50 carriers face the same amount of supply and resources in a pure kodiak fleet, sure, they'd probably get whooped. That's not the point. The point is that when you use them, you use them IN CONJUCTION with something else. They're backed up by forces.[/I] Using them alone or using them in conjunction with other ships makes no difference. For whatever points you spend bringing your ships to the battle if the enemy spends a similar amount of points on ships that do not depend on f