Skote

[quote who="Pat_22_" reply="35" id="3181509"] Let's put it this way. As a regular trinity faction, you'd have to build both 8 of each labs and 2-3 cap ships. Now with the VL you have the option to build 3-4 of each labs and have the other 4-5 labs aboard your 2-3 cap ships you already have. Sure you would have built the labs anyways, but you won't see the labs reaching level 10 and leading your fleet into battle. Plus, as mentioned

[quote who="bilun" reply="33" id="3181449"] You're missing the point: you aren't buying the capitalships for the labs. You ALWAYS build 2-3 capitalships in a game on any faction- that means shipboard labs is going to at the very least give you 2-3 labs of each type(4-6 labs total) effectively for free(you're not spending any more on capitalships then you would have without this tech) with no logistic cost- that's huge. <br /

So why would anyone want to spend the money and time to actually use ship labs if in every single way normal labs are better? Ship Board labs cost more, use fleet supply, and limit your early game fleet so you can't be every where at once. With a lot of there purposed nerfs there is no reason to use Ship labs at all, giving the tech no purpose. At this point just remove the labs and give Vasari something useful instead of just another cost sink.

[quote who="deathbypie" reply="17" id="3180712"] Your conclusion is kind of off here. Sure, you can add up the costs, and say it costs plenty to get the 8 shipboard labs. But you completely fail to mention a few things. 1) You also don't need to upgrade logistic slots on any of your planets, which other factions would need to to get so many labs on just a few planets. Small thing, maybe. 2) 9000C for the Capital ships. Y

Okay then sounds like the Star base is fine the way it is. If you can spend equal amount of resources and destroy the star base, then its perfectly fine. And the Star base its self is a massive drain on the economy. While not on par with the irreversible fleet upgrades, that's a crippling to loss of resources. Also when all is said and done you still have your fleet to take ground or split up and strike at his resource worlds while he's either trying to scrap together enough

You're absolutely right. If you refuse to field a fleet, or don't expect to spend as much as the Vasari player in ships or tech you will lose. That's actually just about every game, where the smaller force loses. So what you want, is the Vasari star base to be nerfed to the point where you can counter it with out using proper ships, and also with out spending yourself on equal ground? Where do you think all this money for starbases come from? Can Vasari con

[quote who="Greg30007" reply="80" id="3180205"] Quoting Skote, reply 77Sweet. Then every other starbase should cost a cap slot as well. Also remove the anti structure cruisers for the other factions. If the only way for the Vasari to assault structures and dug in positions costs a cap ship slot, so should everyone else's. If you are so intent on nerfing the end game enconomy of someone being fed by his allies, then have fleet supply tax apply to resource tra

Haha I only took the time to do all that because I want it to be kinda put into perspective. Its really easy to feel something is over tuned with out taking a pretty critical look at it. I do it all the damn time, and its something I'm trying to fix. I agree though I think stripped to the core oughta require a capital ship in the system that it happens. Just because, I don't have any real reason. It makes personal sense and would be a sweet chance to add some sorta cool animat

[quote who="bilun" reply="9" id="3180079"] Quoting Skote, reply 6The capital ships cost the same as the labs themselves. It actually costs more in the end to use ship labs because of the research required for them. There really isn't any good way to nerf shipboard labs with out making them completely nonviable. Bull. you're going to be buying capitalships regardless- they aren't a cost added by the ability that you pay instead of b

[quote who="SemazRalan" reply="28" id="3178229"]Why is that when I play rebellion it feels like there is a black hole opening up in my heart just sucking what enjoyment I had left for SOASE? Ironclad, I'll give it to you for being an Indie studio and SOASE being your first baby, but Stardock... really? How much did IC actually do on this? Did IC just rubber stamp stuff for you? "yeah, yeah, fine, fine, titans.. yeah... okay, do it. race cars? wtf?

Sweet. Then every other starbase should cost a cap slot as well. Also remove the anti structure cruisers for the other factions. If the only way for the Vasari to assault structures and dug in positions costs a cap ship slot, so should everyone else's. If you are so intent on nerfing the end game enconomy of someone being fed by his allies, then have fleet supply tax apply to resource transfers. You can not, and will not, ever be able to balance this game around 8 p

The capital ships cost the same as the labs themselves. It actually costs more in the end to use ship labs because of the research required for them. There really isn't any good way to nerf shipboard labs with out making them completely nonviable.

Just have the Orky jump between Grav wells at 25% speed. The jumping Orky costs more than any unit in the game. With the money you spend on a single upgraded Starbase you could actually build a pretty nice fleet. Also nerfing the Vasari starbase's damage and health into the ground is stupid as shit. Seeing as Vasari ships are more expensive in both cost and supply they need something that allows them to compensate. So if you really want to nerf the SB, then buff every single Va

Because Titans are more or less balanced around the fact that it takes forever to level them. If Titans lost all their levels dying it would make way to lopsided when one side lost theirs. It would make it way to imbalanced otherwise. The game has been out less than a week. Stop freaking out that things aren't perfect.