PlayerSlayer

Here's the problem if wail only affected ships in same grav well. The only way to counter wail in this situation would be to destroy/disable the culture centre. And the only way to do that is to go into the grav well (even if you have kostura). Whereas, with the current system, it is possible to sneak a few ships in to accomplish the same job, before jumping to the well adjacent to the culture centre. The current system, while affecting multiple wells, offers m

[quote who="Seleuceia" reply="64" id="3222182"].far more frequent than a VL titan getting to lvl 6 (I can count on one hand how many times I've actually seen it)[/quote] VL lvl 6 titan is not really something I see often either. Not sure why you're obsessed with it. On the other hand sttc more often than not plays bigger factor than wail in skilled games online. If wail only affected the same grav well culture centre was in, I don't think it would be too different

was gg. maybe I should have sb'd at some stage and soft eco'd

Well..I don't know what games you play in (AI?) but I see VL sttc abuse far more often than wail. btw, if wail could only work from hws, then we'd hardly ever see it used.

[quote who="Seleuceia" reply="60" id="3221910"]Theory crafted, yes, because as it is wail is so rarely op that I personally have never had to use any of them thus far. But these are just some of the many options I'd consider to counter wail. Lol....well played, slayer, well played...that may be the best rhetoric I've seen in a very long time.... [/quote] How many games does it take for you to see even 1 effective wail? That's testimony to how 'op' i

strip isn't research lab dependent. Means once it is researched it stays researched whether you have labs or not.

@ black, I wouldn't have a problem restricting it to 1 well, but I'm not sure if it should affect allies/your own ships. one change I would make to wail is to make it research lab dependent. edit: come to think of it, Its better for it to affect adjacent wells, otherwise it may truely become potentially impossible to counter. There would be fewer ways to viably destroy the culture centre. If anything this would buff wail

Agreed 100% with Greg. And for the record, we play as all races meaning we have less biased perspective on balance. Take it or leave it. heres another potential counter to wail. timed explosives.

Greg, I did quick test on frigate factory. detonate didn't work

[quote who="Howdidudothat" reply="51" id="3221804"]I just found it very short sighted as putting trade ports on the planet will give you better options late game and bring more mon[/quote] Greg once said Time is the 4th resource in sins. Being able to suddenly get vast amount of resources as vas via sttc and then follow it up by fleet + kostura can be far more devastating than getting eco. Especially if you're able to wipe out a new player quickly on the front first with sb rush a

It was a gg. Notice how Greg uses armistice to counter RB. notice also how one of players is over-reliant on wail rather than fleeting up.

It's still op. Tried and tested. Here are a few options: - consider making it titan ultimate rather than maw. - similar to VR, make it a high level diplo tech - make it research lab dependent, i.e. have to have correct # of labs built at any one time for it to be active.

Here are a few options: - limit # of sbs VR can field (consider a similar limit to how superweapons are currently limited) - limit them to move only btw phase nodes - consider making a tech in the diplo tree that has to be researched btw 2 VR players b4 they can have moving sbs. Means they have to get envoys/certain amount of diplo points first - make it research lab dependent

[quote] An AR with wail can easily take down a player who's fight a 1v2[/quote] Yes. That requires 7 harmony labs. A vasari in same position, on the other hand, requires only 2 labs to deploy an sb that MOVES and can take down the suicide spot even faster. STTC followed by fleet + kostura...now that's something that is virtually impossible to counter, and is something that I see far more often than wail

[quote who="dvvdsfasfa" reply="46" id="3221782"] Quoting Seleuceia, reply 34That (as well as many other suggested "counters") assumes no defending fleet...I think that's the thing people really fail to neglect is the situations where there is a defending fleet... Agreed. But sb is a potential option if there isn't a fleet.[/quote] edit: and..if you suspect nearby fleet, then just back it up with overseers

[quote who="Seleuceia" reply="34" id="3221295"]That (as well as many other suggested "counters") assumes no defending fleet...I think that's the thing people really fail to neglect is the situations where there is a defending fleet...[/quote] Agreed. But sb is a potential option if there isn't a fleet.

[quote who="Seleuceia" reply="39" id="3221539"]Dunov with (presumably) magnetize is going to be very difficult to pull off...cooldown is 15 seconds while duration is 10/12/15/17...in practice, that pretty much means you are going to have to have level 4 magnetize (level 3 is just too risky), which implies a level 7 dunov...not impossible to get, but I don't think you see to many level 7 dunovs with magnetize....in practice you'd most likely have to have multiple dunovs....

overall I think theres more people here who think wail is not op/viable to counter than those who think otherwise.

[quote who="Seleuceia" reply="26" id="3221261"]Armistice??[/quote] lol..let me spell it out for you. Armistice allows you to jump to well adjacent to, and then well with, culture centre. gives you enough time to take it out without your fleet going poop. [quote who="Seleuceia" reply="26" id="3221261"]...and there's detonate AM, which can't even affect culture centers because they don't have AM[/quote] If this is true, then my bad. [quote who="

@seleucia. playerslayer thinks wail is fine

wail is not op. most of the time if you get wailed, it is your own fault. All races have so many counters to wail I can't list them all. Tec: Armistice. Advent: radiance detonate Vas: sbs, kosturas All Races: split up fleet, cap ship fleets, titans, planet bombers, and strategic selection of which planets to target.

actually, limiting sb jumps to phase nodes was originally PlayerSlayer's idea.

heres how to balance moving starbases. limit number of starbases VR can have.

doesn't change fact that sttc is op. In right hands, stripping 3-4 planets is enough for kostura, phase node, few caps, titan + small bomber fleet. achievable within 15 mins of game. Then when you jump to a hw, you can just strip it/use titan phase node ability to jump back to your hw and fire somewhere else if things get ugly.

Ekko Tek, you have any replays of any recent skilled games? one of a good eco that is quickly able to go on offense??