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How to: see/connect-to/host SERVERS!

the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

How to: see/connect-to/host SERVERS!

I have already posted this information to several other forums including the World in Conflict forums where it has received much attention and helped many people with posts such as "I can't connect to servers" , "I can't see all the servers" , "my friends can't see/connect to my server" etc. I have decided to post it again and hopefully it'll be made into a sticky!

I work in IT (design complex NAT/network structures for coporate clients) so that's how I know what I'm talking about. Second, I've had my server the Monk's [PROVING GROUNDS] running a dedicated server for most multiplayer games released since HW1/Operation Flashpoint, so anyone with game hosting issues, ask away! NAT and the misconceptions/inability to configure it are the single largest cause for people not being able to see/connect to/host internet servers today!

A quick lesson on NAT:

NAT (Strict) - Port AND Address-restricted NAT (the router/firewall insists that the packet return from both the same IP Address AND Port the packet was originally sent out to)

NAT (Moderate) - Port-restricted NAT (the router/firewall insists that the packet return from the same Port the packet was originally sent out to but doesn't care if the IP Address isn't the same)

NAT (OPEN) - Port AND Address independent NAT (the router/firewall doesn't care which Port OR IP Address the return packet comes from and simply forwards the data packet on to the internal IP you will have specified in your "port-forwarding") Obviously OPEN-NAT is the least secure and also by extension the most flexible for hosting/connecting-to games.

MOST games will work having TCP set to STRICT and UDP set to MODERATE. ALL games will work setting both TCP and UDP NAT filtering to OPEN. (your routers may or may not even let you modify NAT filtering, many SOHO routers do not!) I have "real" routers/firewalls (very expensive also ) so I have granular control over many things that many SOHO routers don't even reference such as the above.

If your router DOES allow NAT control then my suggestions above willwork! Plain and simple. NAT, when not implemented with any sort of controls (like on many SOHO routers, and crappy retail anti-malware/firewall software) is the single biggest reason for sour gamers!

Happy gaming/hosting, monk out!

xfire: the1monk

EDIT: here is a link a "networking guide for the gamer" I wrote which may also come in handy the "[url=http://www.themonk.ca/Monk/Networking_for_the_Gamer_by_the_Monk.pdf]Networking for the Gamer[/url]" guide I compiled of all the "generic" networking information I posted to various forums.

EDIT:

Here is the link to my SINS-specific guide "Networking and SINS" (version 1.0 written Feb 14/2008) which contains all information necessary in order to play/host SINS!

http://themonk.ca/Monk/Networking_and_Sins_by_the_Monk.pdf

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Yup, I'm having a terrible time connecting too. I can get to the lobby (a room in the 90's usu) and see dozens of people sitting there, but only 2 games in the join list, both of which have been looking for people for the last half hour. Seems I am not the only one with issues.

When I try and host a game I get that popup saying there is something wrong with my router/firewall settings and most people will not be able to join.

I've disabled my Norton, set Windows Firewall to allow Sins + ports 6112 and 6000 for both TCP and UDP, gone into my router and set 6000 and 6112 to forwarding and made sure UPNP was turned on. Still no go.

I really hope there is something the ICO guys can figure out soon, multiplayer is a huge draw to this game (especially since the single player mode is so atypical). And as much as I want to play I am not going to download third party programs to alter my ini and services to do so.

I'm in the exact same situation.

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Well the trick is .. You somtimes have to be RUNNING the isntaled firewall for games to work .. (remember one time spending half of lan party trying to figure out whats wrong with on PC not connecting to others)

but I'm still having the same problem as above... no firewall TCP UDP 6000-6120 port range forwarded ... Battlenet (warcraft 3) Works great (can host and all)
Civ4 also.
SoaSE gives me firewall nonsence (refused by host when joining and Warning message then trying to Host)
running Vista 64

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I'm getting so irritated. I am having the same problems. I've tried configuring my router and I get the same nonsense.

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uTorrent says ports 6000 6112 6101(I set as game port) are open when I test them.
.. anyway I SHOULD be able to atleast JOIN the games even if im behind a firewall

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

@ EVERYONE - IMPORTANT

I have seen that message from IronClad "...Most people will not be able to join your game...." everytime I've hosted since the first 2 or three games I hosted (and I haven't changed anything on my end). The games I host are still able to be joined by EVERYONE and everything works like a charm! What this means is, that IronClad have intruduced a "connection checking" method on their end which takes into consideration WAN ping, IDENT (maybe), open ports, etc. If you fail even one of those, their message pops up. While ping and ident are an easy way to see if a host is online or not, they're not required at all for the actual "connection process".

To re-cap, seeing that message from IronClad doesn't at all mean that it won't work. Ever since they setup their "connection-testing" I've been getting that message as well. I don't allow WAN ping or IDENT so I'm assuming that's why my setup "fails". In any case, I am able (and have many times now) to HOST without any issues whatsoever!

the Monk

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

@ EVERYONE - IMPORTANT # 2

Here we need to understand the general differences between TCP and UDP!

TCP - is a connection-based protocol (needs an active listening connection on both ends) usually requires the port traffic was sent to to be the same going out to the host.

UDP - is a connection-less protocol (great for spamming!

doesn't care if someone is listening) doesn't usually care which port traffic was sent as long as it is able to get to the host.

Here's an example of what I believe is happening MOST of the time when people HOST but no one is able to connect.

Example of mis-configured CLIENT:

client sending TCP 34123 (random high port) --> host rejects on TCP 6112 (because traffic did not originate on client TCP 6112)

- client needs to forward/allow access out on correct port number by relaxing his/her NAT (read my guide on NAT and you'll know what you need to do, if you need help doing it or understand it better I'll be glad to help)

Example of mis-configured HOST:

client sending TCP 6112 --> host accepts on TCP 6112 sends back to client on TCP 32226 (random high port)

client now rejects incoming TCP 32226 from host

- this scenario happened because the HOST doesn't have his/her NAT relaxed enough and although he/she has the ports forwarded for "incoming" traffic, their router/firewall NAT's the "outgoing" packets thereby ruining the "connection"

Example of monk's hosting

:

client sending TCP 6112 --> Monk accepts on TCP 6112 and sends back to client on TCP 6112

- in the above example all communications work as planned and everyone has an enjoyable game!

I will be more than glad to help everyone in getting configured. All I ask is some patience. I am a husband, father and director of ops in a couple IT ventures. Time is at an alltime premium. I will check this thread as often as I can and for those who wish, xfire me for my TeamSpeak server info and I can talk you through the solution.

thanks,

the Monk

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I'm in the exact same situation.

Same situation here as well. First game Ive had any multiplayer connection problems with.

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

All I can say is, I've never had an issue hosting any game peer-to-peer or client-server, ever.

The games I've hosted for SINS so far have gone off flawlessly and I've got some very expensive and complicated/intricate firewalls to configure.

I can guarantee that I will be able to host for any game that will ever be released.

I'm not saying if a person doesn't understand don't host, but all I can do is try to educate those that don't know.

So please read my (guide and) posts, try to understand them and I will be there to explain anything anyone doesn't understand.

If a person is willing to put in the time and effort to learn, then I'm willing to put in the time and effort (incl. talking people through the solutions on TS) to help!

thanks,

the Monk

EDIT: I will have my TeamSpeak server up tonight from around 20:30 CST (central time) so people with problems can login and I'll be ready to help.

(find the TS login information in one of my previous posts.)

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Hi first let me say im really enjoying SoSE top game, well done to IC and SD (and beta testers).

Sorry if this question has already been covered however here it goes.

Im in Australia that may be the problem as I did see a post a few days ago saying ICO does not work in Aust but I was unable to find the symptoms of the problem in the post string so I am none the wiser for that post im afraid.

My issue is, I seem to be able to log onto ICO but I can see no games at all. I say, "I seem to be able to login" because if I type in an incorrect password the system flags that, so I am thinking that my game is in contact with the server at some level.

However once I have entered my password and hit login the window in which I should be seeing all the current running games listed is empty.(hope this is not just a time zone thing then I'd look real dumb, stupid 14hrs

)

I have read Monks posts and followed them as best I can, ports 6112 and 6000 are forwarded in my firewall and SoSE is in the allowed list. My router has never caused me any trouble in the past so I am not sure why it would pick on SoSE to play up and I am somewhat nervous about messing around with the router client as I really have no idea what I am doing.

So there is my problem, what do you reckon?

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Well - no mater what you say thias is THE ONLY multiplayer game I have problems with
Warcraft 3, Homeworld, Diablo 2, Civ4, WoW . .all work perfectly well. torrents also using the game ports .. and why shouldnt they ... the ports are forwarded and the firewall is open for the app's. instead of the NAT bul%&*# tell me WHY is it using high port nomber to connect to someone (if I understud you correctly)
The funny thing is i can join to some ... wel actually I have been able to join to only 1 person. and 2 users where able to join to me .. ( ithink I totaly disabled filtering on my router) and at least i dont get the message that I cant host ... but the BIG Problem is WHY CANT I JOIN - even firewalled users can join on other games .. this is so frustrating and totally mystifying.

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I have a hosting problem. I can run the game all good in every way however i can't host yet. When people join they get to wait for a minute and they get the message they'v been disconnected.
I'v turned off my windows firewall, forwarded ports 6000 and 6112 TCP in every place under the properties of my LAN connection (which in turn gives me my internet) and checked that sins is in windows firewall exceptions just to be totally sure.
To my knowledge the only thing inbetween my internet and my computer is a 'motorola SB4200 surfboard cable modem' which to my knowledge (and google) has no firewall or such abilities (or NAT, are they are the same?)

maybe this modem is too old somehow?

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

If you don't read everything in a post you will obviously miss something.

1. I already posted about that "message from IC-online about people not being able to see your games warning" (SEE POST #30)

2. Read and re-read (if you must) my guide (Networking for the Gamer). Something on your end is taking its job "too seriously", whether this is your router, firewall, other security software or even your ISP will have to be figured out. This is why you're connections are (I'm assuming you're trying to connect to games that are still actually available through the IC and aren't the "buggy" ones staying in the list even when they shouldn't be) going out on random high-numbered ports (that's what "strict-NAT" does, protects you).

I'm not saying you or anyone should disable your router (going into the DMZ) or your firewalls (note: I've hosted SINS since day one while running the Windows Firewall and going through a complex router structure), I'm simply saying that in order for you to find out what exactly is preventing your connections at your end you'll have to exercise more patience with my instructions.

IMPORTANT
Never compare any other game out there to another. They all use different network transport, they may even use the SAME ports but there would be a FUNDAMENTAL difference in HOW they use them which would make any comparison between games moot!

MOST of the time when people can't connect to other games being hosted it is ONE of TWO things:

1. The game has already started and hasn't been removed from the list (IronClad is fixing this in their up-coming patch)

2. The HOST is either using STRICT-NAT (in which case no one will be able to connect to them) OR the HOST is using MODERATE-NAT (in which case only those gamers using OPEN-NAT will be able to connect to them)

I feel like I am repeating myself here because you're not really reading my posts/guide. There is no "quick-fix" to your problem. You will have to learn something new today!

All I can say, is what I've said a few times before. If people aren't willing to invest time and effort into "learning" what I've spent time and effort into posting then I won't spend any more time/effort into explaining it.

the Monk

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i also followed your 8 steps involving all the stuff of setting up the files in xyntserviceproject.exe and .ini and run the game through the service.msc screen (and as side effect the game also starts right after booting up) to no avail.
edit: Any chance that empty spaces of the sins of a solar empire folder may be messing things up?

I haven't managed to read the whole pdf you'v linked. Gonna get some sleep first z_zZ

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

i also followed your 8 steps involving all the stuff of setting up the files in xyntserviceproject.exe and .ini and run the game through the service.msc screen (and as side effect the game also starts right after booting up) to no avail.

I haven't managed to read the whole pdf you'v linked. Gonna get some sleep first z_zZ

Umm....running the game as a service wasn't meant to fix multiplayer connection issues.

Sorry if there was some confusion there. lol Anyway, go into your services.msc screen and double-click on the sins service and set it to "manual" then it won't start unless you want it to.

Anyway, please finish reading my guide. I think anyone should have at least a basic understanding of what I mean when I speak about NAT-filtering after reading my guide (the download link is in my first/second post?)

I've also added you to my xfire, so xfire me and I'll give you my TS server info (if you have teamspeak) so that I can talk you through solving your problems.

the Monk

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Hey,

Could directions on how to slacken your NAT setting be posted? Knowing what is causing the problems is interesting, but I have no idea how to fix the problem since no directions were given besides hosting a dedicated server (from what I can tell).

Thanks.

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

Since I work mostly with enterprise-level routers/nat-devices I'll have to take a somewhat stab in the dark on this for the routers that home-users might be using.

I believe on some D-Link model routers there is something called "gaming mode"? (my sons use a d-link) I believe this "gaming-mode" under TOOLS > MISC changes the LEVEL of NAT-Filtering (though to what level MODERATE or OPEN I'm not sure).

Of course in a perfect world the nomenclature used for NAT-filtering would be "standadized" and used in the same way by all manufacturers, all I can say is that I will keep checking this thread and helping people (who show they're making an effort in understanding my material

) in any way I can!

the Monk

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Ahh, okay, I see why you didn't have a step by step guide.

I have a Netgear router. Do you know how I could access its settings?

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

Ahh, okay, I see why you didn't have a step by step guide.

I have a Netgear router. Do you know how I could access its settings?

Please login to my Teamspeak server (the info is in one of my previous posts) or catch me on xfire (the1monk). I'll help you get this sorted.

the Monk

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Alright, I just added you to xfire. Thanks!

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I suggest people figure out what their devices are and google the names of said devices related to their internet connection and then googling that name along with port, so you get a phrase like "IMS rg54gs2 port" (that is the router that i have). That told me everything my frail intelligence needed to know about opening 6112 and now people can join my games.

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Looking over the pleas for help, I see that individual step-by-step guides for any/all home user routers would be immensely helpful! I can put together one for the DL-4300 Gaming Lounge, once I can get some free time.

What would really be cool, anyone that has MP setup and working, please create instructions (screenshots a plus!) and post them here. List make, model, firmware version of your router too. Sometimes they can be the same model, but one has newer code and has changes that affect the configuration. Listing the OS of the hosting machine (e.g. your PC) and what firewall and/or anti-virus/spyware application(s) you are using (and how you have them set) is a must. If you don't have time to make the guide, but want to help anyway...let someone know here, maybe I can be persuaded to make it for you!?!?!

A note...by helping your fellow gamer out, just increases the pool of MP n00bs out there for all you experienced players to obliterate (i.e. it's in your best interests to help these guys out!) HEHE!

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Its a no brainer that giving is receiving all in one package.
this particular page: http://portforward.com/english/routers/port_forwarding/MSI/RG54GS2/eMule_Plus.htm
helped me with my router.
didnt need to do anything else in my case (i dont use any antispyware except for the ones that scan your HD every now and then)

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Moved

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+221

@Slimpinto

I have been helping as many people as I can. In fact I haven't played more than 2 games in SINS yet (I've hosted plenty, just not played in them) because I've been busy talking people through the steps on my TeamSpeak server.

1. As I've pointed out earlier in this thread, only TCP is used for this game.
TCP port 6112 <-- gameport
TCP port 6000 <-- connection to IC-online

2. I've also pointed out several times (and then personally helped many) to make sure you're not only OPENING ports for traffic (ie. like through a software firewall etc.) but that if you have a router in-between your PC and the internet you need to make sure to FORWARD that traffic from your router to your PC (the correct IP address).

3. My testing has also concluded that several people who had already used my instructions/guide and opened/forwarded everything correctly had an issue where Windows Live Onecare and Windows Defender "silently" block this game's connection. These people that I've helped with that issue have temporarily "killed" the windows processes "MSASCui.exe and MsMPEng.exe" which enables flawless gaming/hosting through IC-online. (I have notified MS about this issue and hopefully they'll update it in a future definition update.)

4. People are not dumb, most of the time they're just lazy.

Between my posts&guide, sites like wwww.portforward.com (where they have screenshots of most consumer-model routers etc.) and hopping onto my Teamspeak server many people have been, and continue to be helped.

the Monk

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Dude, are you getting put-off because I'm adding my input to your thread? I'm not saying you're not helping people, I'm just adding to it. That's what we call collaborating! I only had an issue with the terminology you were using when discussing NAT, but never have I insinuated you don't know what you're doing or talking about. Relax...you can take all the credit.

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