To Anyone Who Plays the Sins of A Solar Empire SP

psychoak

Join Date 07/2007

+225

The way I view mp is that its not suppose to just be about fun which people complain it can lack. Like being competitive in sports where you are good at the game , your not actually looking to have "fun" in the blissful way , your looking to test the limits of your physical and mental abilities. Its only human nature to want to discover yourself , improve your attributes , learn new things and be victorious in any way no matter how trivial . It seems theres a misunderstanding that humans should only rate things on "fun fun fun".

Ok, lets take this as true, wholesale.

CAL. I know people who've played video games semi-pro. Knew quite a few counter-strike players that dabbled in league play, plenty of well organized clans that did regular matches with each other in the spirit of competition. Only the assholes stacked and mp5 whored before going awp on public servers. Pump shotty snipers, tmp whores, pistol nuts. Those are the ones that were fun to dick around with on the public servers. I converted a few myself, getting the silenced colt whore with a 30-1 or better kill ratio to switch to pistols only really improved the game, for everyone. When you've got a game with two people dominating each others teams, it's really fuckin boring.

Winning isn't testing yourself unless it's actually a challenge to win. If you want to play to win and see just how good you are, fine, there are entirely appropriate times to do so. When playing a like minded, like skilled opponent who's also interested in challenging himself, go for it. When actually in a competitive environment where the whole point of playing is to win, you're obviously supposed to. Playing to the best of your ability to massacre some poor sap on a public server that doesn't have the foggiest idea what he's doing isn't challenging yourself, it's being a dick. In such a case, the challenge is in making it challenging, not winning.

On the other hand, there is also significant evidence that your theory on competition has a major hole in it.

Brett Favre for instance. Abject misery, every loss is agony for that poor bastard. He's the greatest quarterback of all time, and he's probably the least happy quarterback of all time.

If winning is everything, you don't have anything.

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I only play with people I know, and we have a grand time of it, coordinating our movements. The general public though? I'd rather not.

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All i here is whine whine whine. LRM spam doesn't win games. I think some of u just dont want a bruised ego, and the rest are cynical about humanity in general.Ok, I could say that it's people like you that keep me from playing online, but that would be untrue. For a number of reasons, I simply have no desire to play any non-MMO online and would not even if every single online player were the salt of the earth. However, if I did have any desire to play online, then it would be people like you that would keep me from playing online.A good illustration of the MP mindset is a another current thread discussing MP interest. I recently posted at somewhat great length that I am uninterested in MP because I do not wish to min/max every aspect of the game and, since my enjoyment of the game comes from playing a turtle oriented game that emphasizes development over combat (and at the slowest game speed with frequent pausing to contemplate stategy), I would not enjoy playing a fast paced game emphasizing combat and quick rushes. I was informed by a MP enthusiast that my "stated reasons for not liking MP play are as useful as a gas planet with no roids. If you don't want to play online, no one is forcing you to do so, but you really can't enjoy a game in all it's wonderfully detailed complexity without subjecting yourself to an arena where a ship or two may be the difference between a lost and a won match." Got that? Although I went to relative length to explain why I personally do not enjoy the type of gameplay required for multiplayer and did enjoy the SP game, I was informed that my personal likes and opinions were irrelevant and that I could not really enjoy the game unless I played online. Moreover, although I specifically stated that I did not like online play because I did not want to be foreced to min/max every single detail of the game, I was informed that I could not enjoy the game unless I did just that.

Well said. I often feel that in any game that has both single player and multi-player modes, that a very vocal large minority of the mp people just are not interested in the thoughts of the sp people and why they play sp, even to the extent of dismissing them as you found out.

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Sins just isn't really built for online matches. It's hard to find time to play anything longer than a 1v1, and everything I've heard from mp complaints says that 1v1 Sins lacks any sort of strategic or tactical depth. When I hear people talk about rigid build orders and numerous 'builds' that all end in 'spam', I know it's not the sort of game I want to play against other people. I mean, what's the point of 3/4 of the tech tree if no one even builds a civic lab in a small game? Throw in crashes, drops, and bugs...and well, the odds are against me ever trying Sins online. It would be great fun for LAN sessions with people you know, I'm sure. But a 3v3 with strangers? I'll just play the AI thanks. We'll see if 1.1 shakes things up.

One of the best ideas for a casual multiplayer RTS experience was World in Conflict. You could drop into games at any time, and leave without seriously disrupting your team. It's the only RTS to this day I've played where if you only had 15 minutes, you could still play for those 15 minutes, leave, and not waste everyone's time. They really need more RTSs that skip or minimize the base building. Company of Heroes does this pretty well too. You start with only 1 unit, yet my units are out there fighting (the opponent, not neutral AI controlled units) within 2-3 minutes of the start. If I wanted long, multi-session games where I fuss with many buildings, my economy, and frequent periods of inaction...well I'd load up Sins single player.

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I only play with people I know, and we have a grand time of it, coordinating our movements. The general public though? I'd rather not.

You make it sound like the "general public" players smell. What exactly are you afraid of? Losing?

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When I hear people talk about rigid build orders and numerous 'builds' that all end in 'spam', I know it's not the sort of game I want to play against other people.

The strategy is in figuring out what you need to do so that you can spam out more ships than the other guy. It's not about designing the prettiest and most diverse fleet. It's about building the most powerful and most useful fleet.

But a 3v3 with strangers? I'll just play the AI thanks.

If you have two hours, you have enough time to play a 3v3 and most are decided within the first hour and most of them end within an hour-and-a-half. And remember...you can't smell your opponents BO through the Internet, so don't worry about unpleasant odors while you play. Why are you afraid to play with strangers? Losing and learning to improve is just part of the game and winning wouldn't be much fun if you didn't face the risk of actually losing.

We'll see if 1.1 shakes things up.One of the best ideas for a casual multiplayer RTS experience was World in Conflict. You could drop into games at any time, and leave without seriously disrupting your team. It's the only RTS to this day I've played where if you only had 15 minutes, you could still play for those 15 minutes, leave, and not waste everyone's time.

Now this is an interesting idea, though it seems like hosts would need an option for enabling and disabling it.

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Why are you afraid to play with strangers?

It's not about being afraid, it's about the fact that internet anonymity turns much of the 'general public' in to complete f*cktards, and that some people (me being one of them) can't be arsed to willingly subject themselves to it. I've got all day at work to spend dealing with idiots, I'd rather not do it in my leisure time as well.

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The strategy is in figuring out what you need to do so that you can spam out more ships than the other guy. It's not about designing the prettiest and most diverse fleet. It's about building the most powerful and most useful fleet.

Spamming any kind of unit just isn't fun to me, personally. I work to keep what few ships I have alive. (What a concept!) Of course, that doesn't go over well in MP.

If you have two hours, you have enough time to play a 3v3 and most are decided within the first hour and most of them end within an hour-and-a-half. And remember...you can't smell your opponents BO through the Internet, so don't worry about unpleasant odors while you play.

Not everybody has even that long. Saved games are so very useful.

Why are you afraid to play with strangers? Losing and learning to improve is just part of the game and winning wouldn't be much fun if you didn't face the risk of actually losing.

I'm not afraid. I'm not great, but I'm certainly not bad, either. It's just not FUN.

We'll see if 1.1 shakes things up.One of the best ideas for a casual multiplayer RTS experience was World in Conflict. You could drop into games at any time, and leave without seriously disrupting your team. It's the only RTS to this day I've played where if you only had 15 minutes, you could still play for those 15 minutes, leave, and not waste everyone's time.

...MMORT4X? How many genres can you splice in?

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The general public though? I'd rather not.You make it sound like the "general public" players smell. What exactly are you afraid of? Losing?

They don't smell, they're just macho jerks who refuse to acknowledge that anyone can have different likes and interests than they have. As you prove with every post in multiple threads. You know, I usually try hard to be civil in my posts, but my patience is really wearing thin with this attitude. I, and many others, have politely posted at length that we don't like MP for many reasons. One commonly expressed reason is that we don't find it enjoyable to min/max to the extreme or to spam the winning strategy over and over. Yet posters like this keep telling us that we are wrong, we are too stupid to know what we like, and we cannot prefer SP because, well, they don't. I don't post over and over that you should prefer SP, though I consider it the preferable playstyle (for me personally) or that the need to balance the game for online play diminishes the complexity of SP (though I think it does). I don't make such posts because I understand that not everyone shares my interests and the devs are making the best compromises they can to accomodate both playstyles and provide the best experience they can for players of varied interests (and I know Brad has thought long and hard about these matters for all the Stardock games). But not only do posters like you refuse to acknowledge the validity of our decisions to enjoy what we enjoy, but you belittle that opinion, taunt us (whassamatter, scareda losin'?), and then get all offended and huffy when some also note that they prefer to avoid the company of online bullies.

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Lets put everything into perspective . People in Sins online are generally very mature. I go online almost everyday and Ive only ever been in a few situations where theres someone being an asshole and even then , it didnt really bother me. Its so rare , it shouldnt be a reason preventing you from going online if you do want to go online.

Most of those who say its assholes thats preventing them from going online ,have developed negative connotations from other game expierences. Im not arguing that online in other games has been perfect. Its unfair however to judge the Sins community on the merits of other games.

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My biggest gripe about online people is that some choose to play SP in a MP game - the biggest annoyance I am finding is people who don't commit to a fight and try and get RA without contributing any fleet to any fights. If they fail to get it, other people get blamed for not protecting them and/or sending them resources.
I played a game the other day that was 5v5 on a huge multi. It was 2v3 in the centre galaxy (I was one of the 2) and the other guy decides to run for another galaxy to get RA developed. He didn't do it to get more resouces, he just wanted to make sure he wasn't being attacked. The only reason I survived was one of my team in the other galaxy came to visit me via a wormhole while I was being attacked. Oh, and the fact he brought a HUGE fleet with him

We won because he supported me when I had fought two opponents to a stand still and was starting to be whittled down.

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It's not about being afraid, it's about the fact that internet anonymity turns much of the 'general public' in to complete f*cktards, and that some people (me being one of them) can't be arsed to willingly subject themselves to it. I've got all day at work to spend dealing with idiots, I'd rather not do it in my leisure time as well.

In other words, you don't like e-jerks. Unfortunately, as with any game, there are a couple jerkwads out there, but they are the exception. There are far, far fewer e-jerks than in an FPS game that I play.

I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised with the online multiplayer Sins crowd. Most of the people I've met in the Lobby and that I've played with and against have been friendly and collegial. People try to help each other in the chat Lobby and I've been enjoying the social aspects of the game, making friends and meeting new people, playing against honorable opponents who were gracious in victory or good sports in defeat and then adding them to my Friends list.

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Hmm, well, that does sound like a refreshing change, though there's still the issue of time. It's not that I don't have that much time, it's more that it's really frustrating when the door bell goes, the phone rings or someone wants to ask you something, and you have either ignore it, or quickly get it and explain that you're busy. Worse, you have to get into some awkward discussion with a non-gamer about how you're playing a game that you can't pause and that you also don't want to stop either, often this is met with confusion and possibly a little offence; all this is occurring sometimes while you're playing the game and you're busy looking at the screen and not them - even more rude! Great. Sins seems like a game that you can go AFK for a little on with too much trouble, but it also sounds like a game that will drag on much later than planned and have a much longer "engaged" time that say Dawn of War.

I will endeavour to try online (you win!), but just remember that some of the reason people don't play is that they don't want to let people down by having to leave. I'd rather not be stuck in a monster Sins session that is dragging on and I need to go to sleep because I have work the next day or something; I wouldn't want to leave because that's just not sporting, but I might really need to. Anyway, whatever.

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All i here is whine whine whine. LRM spam doesn't win games. I think some of u just dont want a bruised ego, and the rest are cynical about humanity in general.

If I want "rock, paper, scissor", I'll play that and not MP. SINS is decent as a shiny chess game, actually shiny checkers... or hell - it's Space Rock, Space Paper, Space Scissor.

Metal Fatigue, Star Trek Armada II, battlechess have more going for them. WTH are game developers going to figure out that graphics does not beat story.

And I will not play MP RTS games as poorly designed as SINS.
Can players start off with a set civ/mil tech level or range of allowed tech? -no.
Can certain unit limits be set to avoid spammage? -no.
Can players set certain units/abilities off? -no.

No min/max tech level, no way to start players at tier "X" reseach with a max of "Y", no unit limits to prevent spammage, game has races that start poorly but end game are uber -and vice versa- leading to unbalanced play (more rock/paper/scissor action -with bloom and high details... meh).

I'll stick to SP and pray for a campaign.

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I hear the spamming argument a lot, and frankly you can't ever really stop "spamming" per se. After all, if I see that you went econ and I went military, I have to "spam" to bring you down before you get a bigger econ=>bigger fleet online. Besides, Sins actually has an anti spam mechanic now, the fleet upkeep punishes those who make tons of troops (it's also anti slippery slope, which is good as well). But pretty basicly, if I can make a unit, and you don't have the proper counter to it, then I'd be stupid not to make as many of them as I can before you get the counter out. Once you have the counter out, then I have to adjust. But I'd have no reason not to take advantage of the opportunity by not producing as many of said ships as possible.

Anyway, as CenturionJixra said, the online community is very good overall. I have yet to meet anyone who was actually rude (I've seen some quit when it's obvious they'll lose, but that's fairly understandable). Also, everyone seems generally interested in helping out newbies and don't make fun of others if they are getting beaten.

So please do give online a try, the only real issue with it currently (imo) which only affect MP is the length of the games. Sure can save and reload, but actually getting the people back togather is very very difficult. But most games only last for an hour or so, of course, if you join a 5v5 huge random multi star map it will last a lot longer, so you have to judge the size of the map you should join by how much time you think you'll have.

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Worse, you have to get into some awkward discussion with a non-gamer about how you're playing a game that you can't pause and that you also don't want to stop either, often this is met with confusion and possibly a little offence; all this is occurring sometimes while you're playing the game and you're busy looking at the screen and not them - even more rude!

It's funny because it is true - my finacé doesn't understand why I can't come and help her with the house work right there and then

I explained to her about being unable to stop the game but she doesn't fully understand online gaming - she is more used to turn based etc... where she could pop away from a short period

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My wife has a hard time understanding it, too, especially since she thinks I should spend less time gaming and more time busing my rump looking for a job in my field. Women and gaming just do not mix well, IMHO.

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You can pause in multiplayer games!

Its the PAUSE Button. Just be curtious to everyone and tell them why you have paused and how long you will pause for before you press it , since your the only one who can then unpause it and nobody can speak once it is paused.

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I would like to try MP. it's hard to find a game though. I can only play on saturdays.

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I would like to try MP. it's hard to find a game though. I can only play on saturdays.

I would reccomend 11.00-12.00 pm GMT time

Sins has many people online , but because games are so long , many are inside games rather then waiting for games.

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I have no interest in competitive gaming, I have more than enough competition throughout the day. I like to play casually, take my time, goof around mostly, and maybe decimate the enemy... or not. But regardless, there's nobody else depending on me to play the game their way, there's nobody to let down because I play for fun as opposed to "win at all costs". That goes for cooperative games as well. Just let me be... Away from irritating colleagues, demanding significant others, even obnoxious but lovable friends... Playing a game is my escape. My mini-vacation.

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Tried to play online in many games but am always disappointed. People are always looking for the "easy" way to win. When I play an RTS, I play it to watch the epic battles and to try to use different units in a strategic way.

Playing C&C 3 online has taught me that there are very people out there who share that view. It is all about the cheapest build order for the maximum amount of power and they don't care if it looks stupid or not.

Such as the Torpedo Frigate spam (or whatever you call it). Sure it might win you the game, but it looks dumb. If you've never seen a space movie, there is always a variation in ships.

Overall in the RTS genre lately, MP is taking way too much priority over SP. People have lives and want to be able to play on their own terms. The only truly fun online experiences I have ever had, have been on World in Conflict and Frontlines Fuel of War (but even Frontlines isn't the greatest).

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I would like to try MP. it's hard to find a game though. I can only play on saturdays.I would reccomend 11.00-12.00 pm GMT time. Sins has many people online , but because games are so long , many are inside games rather then waiting for games.

You do know that the T in GMT stands for time right?

Anyway...
I've heard a lot about the illum/LRM spam. Now I haven't been able to get into an online game yet, but has anyone thought about countering them at all with strike craft? That's what usually does it for me, especially if I have a couple of drone hosts, a Halycon for support, and some gaurdians to keep them alive. Someone said before, either it was in this thread or another, that spamming isn't a horribly cheap way to win. If you're opponent can't counter a ship, keep making them. If they find a counter, counter the counter or retreat to regroup.

Atleast no one can constantly spam Destras.

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what's online?

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The last non-mmo game I tried playing online turned out horribly.

I played the game for a month+ having fun, then logged on vent one day and found out it was all young teenage boys, I'm a married, adult woman, you have no idea how creepy it made me feel.

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