The Benefits of Military Research

from Sins Forums

This post is not yet finished.  I'm just saving it for later.  However, you can read what's here so far and see how it is.  I will acknowledge any criticsm and appreciate any complements.

 

 

 

To be honest, many of my strategy guide posts have been unbelievably failing.  I've been trying to make sense of this game, only to end up looking like a fool.  Now, I think I know what I was doing wrong.  I've been trying to focus on so many things all at one time, all too quickly.  This time, I'm focusing on one thing, and one thing only.  Well, in this post, anyway.  And this time, I'm extremely sure I know what I'm doing.  If I end up failing again, well, say what you want, as always.  I will (finally) acknoledge any criticsm that anyone throws out there.  Thank you for reading, and wish me luck.

Everyone knows the importance of civilian research.  Trade ports, wormholes, and long range jumps are just a few parts of the well-appreciated civilian research column.  However, there are some that basically send military research out the door.  Many only see the benefits of new ship research, and not even all ships, to be honest.  But trust me.  Just today, I did a lot of military research on a match on ICO.  The day before, I researched autocannons powerups just to benefit some Kol Battleships.  That's when I realized that it also augmented the power of my Kodiaks.  So, going back to today, I tried different forms of military research.  I soon found out that all the research in the first two categories almost overpowered the research in the third category.  I will now tell you just what the benefits (and disadvantages, just to be fair) of most of the military research in the second and third columns.  Then, I'll tell you what research I recommend, see as optional, and others that I personally feel are a waste of time and money (though some people may not agree on me with this list).  Note that the second list will pertain only to the TEC, as that is the faction I prefer.  Later on, I may make a list for each faction.

Benefits of Research:1. Hugely bolstered fleet.  Some people may file this under "Painfully obvious", but there's more to it than you'd think.  Read on.

2.  Immediate results after research is done.  In other words, the results of research will be applied as soon as the research is complete.  The results will even apply to ships and structures made before that research was done.

3.  No need to research the same results over and over.  Also really obvious, but really important.  This excludes the fact that ships will need to be made repeatedly, of course, but that's exactly the point.  The results of research apply to every ship they go with.  I'll give an example in the second list.

4.  Only one solid payment per piece of research.  With ships, you always have to pay the same amount for every ship made.  I'll give an example of this benefit's importance in the second list.

Research disadvantages:

1. High research prices:  Research always ends up pretty expensive.  I would stress this point with fleet logistics, but I'm talking about military research, so that's a different story. 

2.  Long research times (minor): This is only a minor disadvantage, as building a huge fleet takes A LOT longer.

This may be just two disadvantages, but this part of the list is very important.  Some may be daunted by

strategy
11,095 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Criticsm 1 - Don't post it until you have the first cut fully finished

Criticsm 2 - Wordy... Did you see how Cykur reduced your BS for newbies one to 4 points - https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/358266/get;2290233

Observation 1 - You need to read the tech tree info cards since it is immediately obvious in the first 30 seconds of the game which techs add to which ships

Question 1 - Since you have challenged me to a game - I would be interested to know where you are, when you play and what your stats are like...

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I only have the vanilla version, I usually play about 8-12 o'clock, and I usually have the worst luck, and I can pwn medium AI (they're too easy), but hard AI can really give me a hard time (they're still too hard).  Oh, and, Observation 1, that's not a question.

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting dbrainstorm, reply 2
I only have the vanilla version, I usually play about 8-12 o'clock, and I usually have the worst luck, and I can pwn medium AI (they're too easy), but hard AI can really give me a hard time (they're still too hard).  Oh, and, Observation 1, that's not a question.
End of dbrainstorm's quote

 

Hack can prolly take out 1 or 2 unfair ai's who are against him.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Hack can prolly take out 1 or 2 unfair ai's who are against him.
End of quote

Thanks JJ - nice to hear your support.

<EDIT> Just to confirm - in Entrenchment - me playing Vassari beat 2 Unfair AI (Random everything = 1 TEC and 1 advent) = win for me on a 4 player map (4th slot closed)... Still want to play me???

Oh, and, Observation 1, that's not a question.
End of quote

Of course not - if it was, it would be a question, not an observation...

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

If you are at the point where a single hard AI is too difficult to take out, you probably shouldn't be writing guides in the strategy section.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

A point I have been trying to make all along - while being told to stop picking on the OP because he is "trying". It's not a personal thing - I just don't want people being lead up the garden path...

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Of course not - if it was, it would be a question, not an observation...
[/quote]

I meant "Question 1"...

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Fine - it is 3 questions

1) Where are you located

2) What time do you play Sins (need to work out timezone differences)

3) What are your online stats like?

I am available to play more now - let me know when...

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

It should be kept in mind when choosing whether to upgrade or not how much it is worth to you.  Most weapon, armor, shield upgrades are 5% increases in power.  This means that you have to have 20 of said ship for an increase to equal 1 ship worth of power.  You should ask yourself if buying another ship is a more efficient way of increasing your power or buying the upgrade instead.  The cheaper upgrades are obviously more efficient at doing this.  Weapon upgrades are generally better upgrades to buy than armor if you have a lot of one type of ship because they are more active.  In a fight, all the weapons of a type are constantly being used but armor and shield upgrades are only helpful for the units being attacked.  Shield and hull upgrades are better in mixed fleets because they are more blanket coverage than weapon upgrades.  There are some mitigating factors of course but these are generalized statements.

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Kinda.....tier 1 military upgrades are ALWAYS worth it. The upgrades for health/armor/shields at tier 1 are so inexpensive that they're always worth it. 400/500 cred and 25/50 crystal is a laughable amount to pay for what you're getting.

Tier 1 weapon upgrades probably aren't a bad investment either, but if you don't have anything that fires lasers, then don't bother obviously.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

When you upgrade, you have to consider a couple of things:

1: Researching takes time. If you expect the game to be drawn out, this can become a real factor, since you'll eventually you won't be able to spend your money on much else then research. Obviously, in this case the side who has the most researches done, has the advantage. So researching is investing in the future, since it'll give you an advantage when researches become the most important factor and getting ALL the researches done takes a very long time. What this means in practise, is that in long battles it's a good thing to be always busy with some kind of research if you can afford to.

2: Researching makes your fleet stronger without costing you supply. On the other hand: if you have supplies left, you're better off spending that money on ships rather than research. So here's how you proceed: you get a supply upgrade, then you get the ships until you hit your next cap, then you spend money on research that boosts your fleet until you feel ready for the next supply upgrade. Sometimes you may want to get to the next level of supply asap, but sometimes this is too costly and you are better off waiting for a bit. That's when you start to research.

3: Most researches give you diminishing returns. This means that getting the T2 weapons upgrade gives you relatively less bang for your buck than the T1 upgrade did. Why is this? 1: because the T2 upgrade is more expensive and usually gives the same % boost of base DPS. 2: because you get the same percentage of base DPS each research. So the first research gets you, say, from 100% to 110% which is a 10% relative increase. The second one gets you from 110% to 120%, which is only 120/110 *100% = 109,09%. So you only get a 9,1% relative increase, rather than a 10% relative increase. The upshot is that higher tier upgrades give you less bang for your buck. Exceptions exist, such as the Advent migitation researches which actually give you increasing returns.

Well, that's how I feel about researches. Feel free to differ, though.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Greyfox2, reply 9
It should be kept in mind when choosing whether to upgrade or not how much it is worth to you.  Most weapon, armor, shield upgrades are 5% increases in power.  This means that you have to have 20 of said ship for an increase to equal 1 ship worth of power.  You should ask yourself if buying another ship is a more efficient way of increasing your power or buying the upgrade instead.  The cheaper upgrades are obviously more efficient at doing this.  Weapon upgrades are generally better upgrades to buy than armor if you have a lot of one type of ship because they are more active.  In a fight, all the weapons of a type are constantly being used but armor and shield upgrades are only helpful for the units being attacked.  Shield and hull upgrades are better in mixed fleets because they are more blanket coverage than weapon upgrades.  There are some mitigating factors of course but these are generalized statements.

 

[_]-Greyfox
End of Greyfox2's quote

Quoting Vleessjuu, reply 11
When you upgrade, you have to consider a couple of things:

1: Researching takes time. If you expect the game to be drawn out, this can become a real factor, since you'll eventually you won't be able to spend your money on much else then research. Obviously, in this case the side who has the most researches done, has the advantage. So researching is investing in the future, since it'll give you an advantage when researches become the most important factor and getting ALL the researches done takes a very long time. What this means in practise, is that in long battles it's a good thing to be always busy with some kind of research if you can afford to.

2: Researching makes your fleet stronger without costing you supply. On the other hand: if you have supplies left, you're better off spending that money on ships rather than research. So here's how you proceed: you get a supply upgrade, then you get the ships until you hit your next cap, then you spend money on research that boosts your fleet until you feel ready for the next supply upgrade. Sometimes you may want to get to the next level of supply asap, but sometimes this is too costly and you are better off waiting for a bit. That's when you start to research.

3: Most researches give you diminishing returns. This means that getting the T2 weapons upgrade gives you relatively less bang for your buck than the T1 upgrade did. Why is this? 1: because the T2 upgrade is more expensive and usually gives the same % boost of base DPS. 2: because you get the same percentage of base DPS each research. So the first research gets you, say, from 100% to 110% which is a 10% relative increase. The second one gets you from 110% to 120%, which is only 120/110 *100% = 109,09%. So you only get a 9,1% relative increase, rather than a 10% relative increase. The upshot is that higher tier upgrades give you less bang for your buck. Exceptions exist, such as the Advent migitation researches which actually give you increasing returns.

Well, that's how I feel about researches. Feel free to differ, though.
End of Vleessjuu's quote

All very good points.  And, like Vleessjuu said, there are exceptions.  With all of this research, you could end up creating even bigger powerhouses out of your cap ships.  For instance, full autocannon research gives a Kol Battleship 71 average damage at lvl 5.  Just imagine lvl 10 (possibly 120+average damage)  Also, Kodiaks end up with 23 average autocannon damage with full autocannon research.

Finally, it's great to see at least more nuetral responses in place of all those negative responses.  My previous attempts were all huge mistakes.  It's a good thing that this is an improvement.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Still waiting...