Neutral Balance

this actually balances the game out because the vasari have the worst lrf, so they need money for upgrades and also all of their ships are more expensive and most take up far more fleet points than their counterparts.

It's just a corollary of the randomization. I've also seen maps with almost no neutrals. In this case, the balance goes the other way. You need to pick your race before you see the map, so no one's at an advantage a priori. Sometimes, you just get map screwed.

But in response to your actual query, I don't think the strategy changes so much for Advent. For TEC, if you really can't get a worthwhile trade chain going, then you're probably going to have to either: a) just contribute what you can to your teammates' efforts, or turtle up and rush to pervasive economy (especially on a 5v5 map...). However, most likely you're better off just sucking it up and putting a starbase on a neutral and connecting two smaller planet chains of ports. TEC also get to put a trade port on dead asteroids after 6 civ labs.

Just the luck of the draw with random maps.  I very recently had a 1v1 where I began without an asteroid and all the planets surrounding my homeworld had maximum sized militia forces, and all the neutrals were on my enemy's side of the map (I still had uncolonizables on my side, but they were empty and only served to break up all potential trade port chains), and my enemy started with THREE asteroids plus he had a planet with massive pure glaciers and was TEC and was 8 jumps away from me.  So yeah, luck of the draw.  There's worse that can happen.

well the worst ive ever had is 4 jumps to the nearest planet from my HW. we almost lost that game.

ya... There needs to be more less random maps... you know... maps that are even... and so winning is slightly more based on skill and slightly less based on that magnetic storm that popped up next to your homeworld.

Edit: another thing i have noticed... is that vasari players hosting a new map tend to pick maps that are one size too big for the number of players... while this reduces rushing a bit... it also means more neutrals.

i have seen that a bit. Rubee always hosts bigger than he will play. I usually never host bigger because i want a fair game not one with 2000 nutrals.

The amount of resources you get from neutrals could be lower. You can easily get twice the metal and crystal a planet gives. And you don't have to spend anything colonizing or building extractors.

Yeah - he always does 4v4 on huge and will never make it 5v5 even if players are available. Normally results in a 5v5 being setup and a number of people jumping over...

Anyway, a few observations I would like to make

1) Generally in 5v5 games there should be at least 1 of each race per team.

2) Quick start reduces the advantage of neutrals as the other races can get out and grab them quicker. It's hard to hold neutrals against a colony ship and some combat ships...

3) Vassari don't get trade until 4 civics are up and they pay 1000C, 150M and 250C. Those neutrals are all that keeps them in the early game considering the cost of their units and how illums kill them and can be out within 5 minutes... Compare this with Advent who get the cheap upgrades to planet infra, allowing them to get good econ without having trade up...

Im going to say chalk it up to getting map f***ed. It happens to all of us, whether it be no opening roid, or having enemy HWs connected (especially if some1 like JJ is on the other end ), or even having a bunch of neutrals with no extractors.

These things are going to happen on random maps. I'll bet though that somewhere out there is a good map thats well balanced for all races, now if only there was an auto d/l system.

I actually do a lot of experimentation with galaxy forge.  To date, this is (imo) my best balanced map:

The problem is, there's only so much I can do to test these different map designs against AI's, and without an automatic download system it's so prohibitive to test them with players (especially when you're tweaking to find the right balance).

Worse yet, there's no control over asteroid or militia distribution, so even if I do get things right there's always the chance a neutral well will turn up barren or one of your nearby planets will be swarming with neutral militia but your enemy's is not. My personal pet peeve is currently with magnetic clouds popping up in "random uncolonizable" wells, because they block starbases (and therefor trade routes) and cannot support extractors.

WAIT I got the answer for you Raging

Use the in-game map designer and make your own. You still get randomly generated maps, but you can set certain parameters for it, I just tested it and it works quite well and was lots of fun.

Darvin that is a really awsome map.  3 ways to get to the other guy...

1. 7 jumps the old fashioned way... not so easy to rush that... and dont forget... sending in reinforcments via a rally point through 2 desert planets with high millitia is prolly a bad idea...

2. do a bit of research and jump to the sun... but you still got to get around that sun... which takes a little while... on the plus side... your antimatter reserves will be full... on the down side... you spent 2-3 labs and a tier 3 research... expect your opponent to be caught off guard, but he will have a better fleet. perhaps a nice way for a vasari to send a starbase to the homeworld while the main fleets are fighting over the deserts.

3. go hightech, and head through those worm holes.... something they will not expect... and a great way to get past that desert if he build a big mean starbase there. Do not rush. really. dont.

darvin, you should put that map somewheres where people can download it... cause I would love to play that map against a human!  (expecially if the roids and the millitas were forced to be equal... *sigh*.)

Look at the URL.  That's the preview image for a file download.

http://www.rtscommunity.com/mw/map.php?itemid=238&game=26